FYI: Th truth about using your firearm in a self defense situation

[Secpro]

Greetings to all,
This is just and FYI to all those who have not yet had the unfortunate opportunity of discharging there firearm in a self defense situation.
I do not know this to be law but to be the Standard Operating Procedures(SOPs) for most if not all Law Enforcement agencies in the state.

If you discharge your weapon in defense of your life or another you must be prepared to be without that wepaon for an undisclosed period of time.
After a shooting incident whether it be you in the right or not, the local agency on scene will go through there SOPs and CSI etc and in the end will take your firearm for what may seem to be an eternity, but from prior experience can be up to 6 months or a year.

[spikes40]

entirely true...untill the case is closed and done.. the weapon will be held as evidence

[anthony20031]

well apparently I was lied to by the person who gave my CWL course like 3-4 months ago...guy claimed he worked at the academy training broward cadets. Anyway he told the class that the procedure is that they would take you to the police station for questioning, at that point he said that regardless if you were in the right just say "I was afraid for my life. I shot in self defense and I want my lawyer." Then you'll get to speak with your attorney and go through the questioning etc. Once that is complete he said that if you have a good attorney he will get your firearm back, unloaded (even the magazine). I didn' think they would give it back though....so you won't right?

If that's the case I wonder when it will happen that someone's gun is taken for this reason and then while waiting for it's return is involved in another situation, but being unarmed (only gun he has) loses his life.

[Secpro]

entirely true...untill the case is closed and done.. the weapon will be held as evidence

That part about the case being closed and done is bogus. They may tell you that, but it's not the truth.

[Secpro]

If that's the case I wonder when it will happen that someone's gun is taken for this reason and then while waiting for it's return is involved in another situation, but being unarmed (only gun he has) loses his life.[/QUOTE]

He loses his life for not having a gun is not there problem believe me. Even for on duty security personnel envolved in shooting incidents there duty weapons are still taken and they still have to go through the process like everyone else.

[Secpro]

[QUOTE=anthony20031;10907]well apparently I was lied to by the person who gave my CWL course like 3-4 months ago...guy claimed he worked at the academy training broward cadets. Anyway he told the class that the procedure is that they would take you to the police station for questioning, at that point he said that regardless if you were in the right just say "I was afraid for my life. I shot in self defense and I want my lawyer." Then you'll get to speak with your attorney and go through the questioning etc. Once that is complete he said that if you have a good attorney he will get your firearm back, unloaded (even the magazine). I didn' think they would give it back though....so you won't right?

I've never had to go to the police station, but I guess that part may actually happen. They do tell you say nothing and ask for a lawyer ASAP. The system is tricky as hell and will fuck you over whenever it can.

[Secpro]

Also it varies by county how you will have to go about getting your property or firearm back.
In Palm Beach County you will have to get a court order from a judge to have your weapon returned to you.
It's about a $300 cost to petition the court to sue the Sheriff's office for your firearm. Pretty much a way for the county to make money off your ass. If you don't get your weapon back they auctionit off some years later and if you do get it back they made $300 off of you as well as court costs.

[Dan]

In speaking with attorneys about this exact subject I was told that if the town/state is not going to file a case against you then they have to return your weapon. Your attorney should know that info going in and if he doesnt, get a new attorney. They have no legal right to keep your weapon unless they are going to charge you. If they dont charge you then they will not need the weapon for ballistic testing and so on. Only if they charge you do they get to keep the weapon. And then you only get the weapon back if you are innocent of the charges.

[anthony20031]

In speaking with attorneys about this exact subject I was told that if the town/state is not going to file a case against you then they have to return your weapon. Your attorney should know that info going in and if he doesnt, get a new attorney. They have no legal right to keep your weapon unless they are going to charge you. If they dont charge you then they will not need the weapon for ballistic testing and so on. Only if they charge you do they get to keep the weapon. And then you only get the weapon back if you are innocent of the charges.

Assuming then that this is what the instructor was implying. Obviously after questioning you and they are satisfied with the reasoning behind the shooting then your attorney should then have your weapon returned to you as you are not being charged with any crime

[spikes40]

That part about the case being closed and done is bogus. They may tell you that, but it's not the truth.


it is my friend as i speak from first hand experiance

[Secpro]

In speaking with attorneys about this exact subject I was told that if the town/state is not going to file a case against you then they have to return your weapon. Your attorney should know that info going in and if he doesnt, get a new attorney. They have no legal right to keep your weapon unless they are going to charge you. If they dont charge you then they will not need the weapon for ballistic testing and so on. Only if they charge you do they get to keep the weapon. And then you only get the weapon back if you are innocent of the charges.

That may be correct for a standard CCW shooting, with a lawyer on retainer, but what about the guy without a lawyer?
As for security personnel involved in shootings our procedures are totally different than that of the standard CCW. Ours are taken without question for extended periods of time. We don't have lawyers on retainer and working for companies who don't issue you duty weapons also puts you in a bind as far as that goes.

[Satan_3pc]

I suggest that you guys read this book

http://www.amazon.com/Florida-Firearms-Law-Use-Ownership/dp/B001TWZ896/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247847421&sr=1-2


And hope that nothing ever happens.

Remember kids! Never trust the governement!

[spikes40]

i actually own that book...just not the 2009 edition

[Cris]

Thats a good book, lots of info in there.

[Satan_3pc]

Written by a lawyer ;)

[Cris]

#39.99 from Amazon, it says $26.95 on the back of the book.

[JaxChris]

The county would never sell off an uncollected firearm. Any firearms that are no longer needed and never collected must be mutilated/destroyed.

Even if innocent, they will end up test firing your weapon multiple times (clean/dirty/your ammo/their ammo) to get an accurate bullet profile. But yes, once case is closed, you can get your property returned. There is no lawyer needed if you just keep calling to see when evidence has been released.

If you happen to only hurt the bad guy and not kill him, don't ever expect to get it back. Once the bad guy is found guilty and on his way to jail - he will be suing you for damages. This will keep your weapon locked in as evidence.

Remember if you must shoot, shoot to kill. This is what every cop I've ever known has told me is best practice. You never goto the range practicing how to take out a bad guy's knee or shoulder do you? No, you practice kill shots. A bad guy left living will just hurt someone else one day. Keep shooting until the bad guy falls. Once he's hit and on the ground, if you continue to shoot, the police could bring charges for use of excessive force.

Use of deadly force can only be used so long as the threat is perceived to be lethal. If the guy hits the ground after 1-2 shots and is bleeding on the ground it's pretty safe to say you can stop firing and detain said bad guy until authorities arrive.

[spikes40]

The county would never sell off an uncollected firearm. Any firearms that are no longer needed and never collected must be mutilated/destroyed.

Even if innocent, they will end up test firing your weapon multiple times (clean/dirty/your ammo/their ammo) to get an accurate bullet profile. But yes, once case is closed, you can get your property returned. There is no lawyer needed if you just keep calling to see when evidence has been released.

If you happen to only hurt the bad guy and not kill him, don't ever expect to get it back. Once the bad guy is found guilty and on his way to jail - he will be suing you for damages. This will keep your weapon locked in as evidence.

Remember if you must shoot, shoot to kill. This is what every cop I've ever known has told me is best practice. You never goto the range practicing how to take out a bad guy's knee or shoulder do you? No, you practice kill shots. A bad guy left living will just hurt someone else one day. Keep shooting until the bad guy falls. Once he's hit and on the ground, if you continue to shoot, the police could bring charges for use of excessive force.

Use of deadly force can only be used so long as the threat is perceived to be lethal. If the guy hits the ground after 1-2 shots and is bleeding on the ground it's pretty safe to say you can stop firing and detain said bad guy until authorities arrive.

:+1:

[ss1]

Since lawyering up has been discussed already, you need to remember that although you can train to shoot with greatest impact and efficiency which may mean head and vital area shots, you must remember to always convey that you shot to stop the threat and never say "to kill". Plus, don't ever under estimate the non vital shots. A shattered pelvis will immobilize a threat for you to engage another immediate threat if there are multiple. Practice "walking" or "stinging" your shot placements along the target to create a series of trauma impacts over a greater area than just a cluster of rounds in a small tight group.

[anthony20031]

^+1...That is what our instructor told us. You can not state or imply that you shot to kill. You must state that you shot to stop

[JaxChris]

Practice "walking" or "stinging" your shot placements along the target to create a series of trauma impacts over a greater area than just a cluster of rounds in a small tight group.

Interesting. So when I'm practicing my fast-fire it is actually good that I aim a little low initially and my rapid follow-up shots make a vertical line about 6 inches long? (4 shots in rapid fire all roughly the same distance between each other)

See, and here I was thinking that might not be acceptable and was hoping to tighten that up. But I understand the logic in what you're suggesting as the more organs hit, or soft tissue damaged, the more immobilizing pain the bad guy will find himself in and be unable to focus on fighting back once on the group.

I guess I'll stick with working on muscle memory of my current results then. =)

Thanks.

[Secpro]

Since lawyering up has been discussed already, you need to remember that although you can train to shoot with greatest impact and efficiency which may mean head and vital area shots, you must remember to always convey that you shot to stop the threat and never say "to kill". Plus, don't ever under estimate the non vital shots. A shattered pelvis will immobilize a threat for you to engage another immediate threat if there are multiple. Practice "walking" or "stinging" your shot placements along the target to create a series of trauma impacts over a greater area than just a cluster of rounds in a small tight group.

Sounds great with the shot placement and all, but you don't want a BG to live.
Never shoot head shots! You will be charge for excessive force. The exact wordage goes somewhere along the lines of expert marksman and a prosecutor will have it out for you.

As far as wounding shots in the pelvic area and such. No way no how!!!!!
Always shoot to kill because if not that same BG will drag you through all forms of court hearings and such not to mention the civil proceedings when that SOB is trying to sue your ass.
Always shoot to kill!
When LEO's show up you feared for your life and the reason you kept shooting the assailant is because he kept advancing.
My experience shows me that dead men tell no tails. Under a CCW you have no coverage from state prosecution etc so if you're pulling your CCW weapon you better be prepared to drop the SOB on the other end of it.

[Secpro]

[QUOTE=JaxChris;10929]

Even if innocent, they will end up test firing your weapon multiple times (clean/dirty/your ammo/their ammo) to get an accurate bullet profile. But yes, once case is closed, you can get your property returned. There is no lawyer needed if you just keep calling to see when evidence has been released.

I disagree with part also! I have yet to have a firearm released to me after a shooting incident.
Regardless of what they tell you, until you go through the motions you will not know for yourself. In order to have this particular weapon returned to me I need to petition the court for it's release and the case is not even open.
Each county has different rules and SOPs pertaining to firearms being released. In Broward you'll get a firearm back but not with your ammo. In Dade being the good guy you'll get back both firearm and ammo separate.