3-Step Rule without Permit - Law or Myth?

[JaxChris]

For years I heard of the 3-Step Rule for car carry without a permit. But I haven't heard shit about it in years. Was this overturned, a myth, or still a law?

Just curious to hear from the more legally in-tune among us. A kid that bought some ammo from me today (I checked, he is 22 lol) was carrying his in the glovebox loaded and chambered.

Thanks.

[Secpro]

I do believe that to be a myth sir!

[ss1]

Cris covers this in his CCW class, so I'd invite him to answer this. I also find John Gutmacher's book FLORIDA FIREARMS -- Law Use and Ownership and invaluable tool for CCW and non-CCW Floridians alike.

http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/Florida-Firearms-Law-Use-And-Ownership-Info.html

[Cris]

3-step rule is non-existent in the Florida 790 statutes. It is a good rule of thumb though. Just put your loaded firearm in a holster in either your glove box or center console, something that has a latching device, you are then in compliance with the state laws and also covered in the non-existent 3-step rule. The 3 step rule may apply in other states but law enforcement that transfer from other states to this one still push the laws they knew for the other states. Lets face it, you aren't going to argue with an officer, and putting the loaded firearm in a holster and in glove or center console you are covered by all laws. A firearm should always be in a holster no matter what, it teaches you not to grab within the trigger guard, which in high tension situations could happen.

[Secpro]

3-step rule is non-existent in the Florida 790 statutes. It is a good rule of thumb though. Just put your loaded firearm in a holster in either your glove box or center console, something that has a latching device, you are then in compliance with the state laws and also covered in the non-existent 3-step rule. The 3 step rule may apply in other states but law enforcement that transfer from other states to this one still push the laws they knew for the other states. Lets face it, you aren't going to argue with an officer, and putting the loaded firearm in a holster and in glove or center console you are covered by all laws. A firearm should always be in a holster no matter what, it teaches you not to grab within the trigger guard, which in high tension situations could happen.

My bitch is so smart, I knew I had you take those course for something. lol :raspberry:

[Cris]

It's actually a very common asked question. It's bad that not LE know the actual laws though, especially one this important.

[Secpro]

LEO's aren't attorneys and as such some may not pay attention to certain things. It's widly common in the academy for the 3 step rule to be used as a rule of thumb also. Plus in the end it all comes down to officer safety and the 3 step rule is safe for LE.

[anthony20031]

Alright someone enlighten me to the 3 step rule. Seems pretty explanatory but just want to make sure. I was instructed in my CWL class that you didn't need a permit as long as the pistol was either in the glove box or center console and in a holster but the holster had to be a secured holster such as having a snap strap that held the pistol within the holster...so basically no fobus or blackhawk serpa holsters. Is that correct then?

[Cris]

Incorrect. It can be any holster. The three steps would be as follows:

- Reach to glove box/center console
- Open glove box/center console
- pull firearm out of holster

[ss1]

The Blackhawk Serpa holster is considered a positive retention holster by LE agencies. In fact, it is probably slightly tougher to remove the firearm from the serpa holster when it is not clipped or attached to a belt or rig than a thumb break or thumb swivel strap holster. The standard fobus is not considered a positive retention holster. There's a story I read where a person in FL had his gun confiscated as the LEO interpreted the center console in his truck where he stored his firearm to not be securely enclosed since the console did not have a latch on the lid. IIRC, the driver was being a dick and did not help matters either.

[Cris]

Yes it does need to have a latch, not a lock just a latch.

[Cris]

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/Sec01.HTM) for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012. (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0776/Sec012.HTM)

[Cris]

Title XLVI (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Index&Title_Request=XLVI#TitleXLVI)
CRIMES Chapter 790 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0790/titl0790.htm)
WEAPONS AND FIREARMS View Entire Chapter (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0790/ch0790.htm) 790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--
(1) DECLARATION OF POLICY.--The Legislature finds as a matter of public policy and fact that it is necessary to promote firearms safety and to curb and prevent the use of firearms and other weapons in crime and by incompetent persons without prohibiting the lawful use in defense of life, home, and property, and the use by United States or state military organizations, and as otherwise now authorized by law, including the right to use and own firearms for target practice and marksmanship on target practice ranges or other lawful places, and lawful hunting and other lawful purposes.
(2) USES NOT AUTHORIZED.--
(a) This section does not authorize carrying a concealed weapon without a permit, as prohibited by ss. 790.01 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/Sec01.HTM) and 790.02. (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/Sec02.HTM)
(b) The protections of this section do not apply to the following:
1. A person who has been adjudged mentally incompetent, who is addicted to the use of narcotics or any similar drug, or who is a habitual or chronic alcoholic, or a person using weapons or firearms in violation of ss. 790.07 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/Sec07.HTM)-790.115, 790.145 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/Sec145.HTM)-790.19, 790.22 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/Sec22.HTM)-790.24;
2. Vagrants and other undesirable persons as defined in 1s. 856.02 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Repealed/oxr.htm);
3. A person in or about a place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0823/Sec05.HTM), unless such person is there for law enforcement or some other lawful purpose.
(3) LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/Sec053.HTM) and 790.06 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/Sec06.HTM) do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:
(a) Members of the Militia, National Guard, Florida State Defense Force, Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, organized reserves, and other armed forces of the state and of the United States, when on duty, when training or preparing themselves for military duty, or while subject to recall or mobilization;
(b) Citizens of this state subject to duty in the Armed Forces under s. 2, Art. X of the State Constitution, under chapters 250 and 251, and under federal laws, when on duty or when training or preparing themselves for military duty;
(c) Persons carrying out or training for emergency management duties under chapter 252;
(d) Sheriffs, marshals, prison or jail wardens, police officers, Florida highway patrol officers, game wardens, revenue officers, forest officials, special officers appointed under the provisions of chapter 354, and other peace and law enforcement officers and their deputies and assistants and full-time paid peace officers of other states and of the Federal Government who are carrying out official duties while in this state;
(e) Officers or employees of the state or United States duly authorized to carry a concealed weapon;
(f) Guards or messengers of common carriers, express companies, armored car carriers, mail carriers, banks, and other financial institutions, while actually employed in and about the shipment, transportation, or delivery of any money, treasure, bullion, bonds, or other thing of value within this state;
(g) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive weapons from the United States or from this state, or regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for target, skeet, or trap shooting, while at or going to or from shooting practice; or regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for modern or antique firearms collecting, while such members are at or going to or from their collectors' gun shows, conventions, or exhibits;
(h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;
(i) A person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person while engaged in the lawful course of such business;
(j) A person firing weapons for testing or target practice under safe conditions and in a safe place not prohibited by law or going to or from such place;
(k) A person firing weapons in a safe and secure indoor range for testing and target practice;
(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person's manual possession;
(m) A person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a secure wrapper, concealed or otherwise, from the place of purchase to his or her home or place of business or to a place of repair or back to his or her home or place of business;
(n) A person possessing arms at his or her home or place of business;
(o) Investigators employed by the several public defenders of the state, while actually carrying out official duties, provided such investigators:
1. Are employed full time;
2. Meet the official training standards for firearms established by the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission as provided in s. 943.12 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0943/Sec12.HTM)(5) and the requirements of ss. 493.6108 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0493/Sec6108.HTM)(1)(a) and 943.13 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0943/Sec13.HTM)(1)-(4); and
3. Are individually designated by an affidavit of consent signed by the employing public defender and filed with the clerk of the circuit court in the county in which the employing public defender resides.
(p) Investigators employed by the capital collateral regional counsel, while actually carrying out official duties, provided such investigators:
1. Are employed full time;
2. Meet the official training standards for firearms as established by the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission as provided in s. 943.12 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0943/Sec12.HTM)(1) and the requirements of ss. 493.6108 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0493/Sec6108.HTM)(1)(a) and 943.13 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0943/Sec13.HTM)(1)-(4); and
3. Are individually designated by an affidavit of consent signed by the capital collateral regional counsel and filed with the clerk of the circuit court in the county in which the investigator is headquartered.
(4) CONSTRUCTION.--This act shall be liberally construed to carry out the declaration of policy herein and in favor of the constitutional right to keep and bear arms for lawful purposes. This act is supplemental and additional to existing rights to bear arms now guaranteed by law and decisions of the courts of Florida, and nothing herein shall impair or diminish any of such rights. This act shall supersede any law, ordinance, or regulation in conflict herewith.
(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/Sec01.HTM) for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012. (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0776/Sec012.HTM)
History.--s. 1, ch. 65-410; s. 32, ch. 69-216; s. 32, ch. 73-334; s. 2, ch. 77-302; s. 2, ch. 82-131; s. 15, ch. 83-167; ss. 45, 49, ch. 83-334; s. 32, ch. 84-258; s. 68, ch. 85-62; s. 5, ch. 85-332; s. 15, ch. 87-274; s. 2, ch. 87-537; s. 1, ch. 89-60; s. 8, ch. 90-364; s. 1, ch. 93-269; s. 7, ch. 93-416; s. 89, ch. 95-211; s. 1218, ch. 97-102; s. 110, ch. 2006-1; s. 2, ch. 2006-103.
1Note.--Repealed by s. 3, ch. 72-133.

[Satan_3pc]

Yeah, it's bullshut. Castle Doctrine bitches. Your car is an extension of your house, therefore you could technically have a loaded gun on your back seat if you wanted I suppose, but I can imagine all the problems that could cause.

[JaxChris]

The 3-step rule in most states is actually written where you cannot keep the weapon loaded in your vehicle. Therefore you would have to keep the magazine out of the weapon. The 3 steps would be:

1) Access the weapon from a locked container
2) Access the magazine or revolver clip
3) Load and chamber the weapon

This rule is mentally deficient because you would already be yanked out of your vehicle before you could even access weapon, let alone grab a separate magazine and load the weapon.

These rules are in place to do nothing but prevent potential victims from wanting to own weapons because of all the hoops. It's passive psychological disarming of the citizenship.

But thank you guys for the responses.

[doug5336]

There is a big difference between properly transporting a weapon in a vehicle and concealed carry on one's person. Like Cris copied and pasted previously, the term is "securely encased" for vehicles. Enough said.

[RCSRT8]

just get a permit and be done with the controversy

[Cris]

The 3-step rule in most states is actually written where you cannot keep the weapon loaded in your vehicle. Therefore you would have to keep the magazine out of the weapon. The 3 steps would be:

1) Access the weapon from a locked container
2) Access the magazine or revolver clip
3) Load and chamber the weapon

This rule is mentally deficient because you would already be yanked out of your vehicle before you could even access weapon, let alone grab a separate magazine and load the weapon.

These rules are in place to do nothing but prevent potential victims from wanting to own weapons because of all the hoops. It's passive psychological disarming of the citizenship.

But thank you guys for the responses.

This rule only changed for Florida in July of 2008. So there is still a lot of people who don't know the laws. Personally if you don't care to look at the laws for firearms I don't think you should be carrying or transporting a weapon at all.

When I want to shoot my conceal weapon at the range I actually put it in the manufacturers case and bring it down to the range in my range bag.

[JaxChris]

That is how I also transport, in the original case.

I was just curious about this because the kid mentioned how he was transporting and I felt oddly puzzled by it. Didn't mean to start a great debate in here.

/shutting up now

[Secpro]

There is a big difference between properly transporting a weapon in a vehicle and concealed carry on one's person. Like Cris copied and pasted previously, the term is "securely encased" for vehicles. Enough said.

Sure is! HAving it secured in the vehicle is one thing, but on you while in the vehicle. Nah! Shyt wont fly!

[JaxChris]

Just thought I would throw this out there that I ran across when another topic came up on another forum about carrying in the car, 3-step, and permits... it appears we're all wrong - you have to have a permit to have a pistol in your vehicle, and nothing else matters. Curious how this stands with the previous rulings on castle doctrine extending to your car.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/action-line/story/1173184.html

[Chris]

sounds like the representative misrepresented florida statutes

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

[Dan]

sounds like the representative misrepresented florida statutes

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

WOW, did that reporter not do their homework. I learned this very thing when I took the class for my permit. Basically I was told by the guy teaching the class, who was a former LEO, said that if you have a pistol in your center console or glove box it has to be in a holster with a strap and snap or a latching case. He said if its not then you are breaking the law. He said by putting the pistol in a holster that snaps and locks you are in essence making the pistol "securely encased" as per the law.

[JaxChris]

So nothing has changed huh? Other than maybe the Florida Dept of Agriculture is adopting ATF policies (never give the same answer twice, confuse everyone - especially ourselves)? =)

[Andy B]

WOW, did that reporter not do their homework. I learned this very thing when I took the class for my permit. Basically I was told by the guy teaching the class, who was a former LEO, said that if you have a pistol in your center console or glove box it has to be in a holster with a strap and snap or a latching case. He said if its not then you are breaking the law. He said by putting the pistol in a holster that snaps and locks you are in essence making the pistol "securely encased" as per the law.

He is misinformed as so many people are, including LEO. The fact that the pistol is in the latched glove box or latched center console is securely encased in itself and no holster is needed. I teach the law and then teach common sence. LEO are always right then and there. So whatever they say stands until you get into court and that is when you can argue your case. I ask my students, Do you want to be the test case? They always say no.