View Full Version : my next .22LR
ProfessorStoneFace
08-16-2009, 09:09 PM
this thing is bad ass! the build and feel is great, to me it's much nicer than the Colt 22 AR looking rifle.
anyway, here it is, I think I'll pick it up next week :)
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CustomContentDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&content=751501§ionId=10002
how much are they.... I like it..
They are pretty nice and cheaper than Colt.
Saw it on Guns and Ammo TV a few weeks ago. They said MSRP is going to be $499, with the quad rail and good stock. Much better then the Colt IMO. Also, it uses standard AR components in the lower so you can put AR upgrade components in it like 2 stage match triggers and such. It is a very nice piece. I would get one tomorrow if I had the cash laying around.
JaxChris
08-16-2009, 10:39 PM
Cris, are these already being delivered to dealers?
Yep, saw two this past week. Once came in the shop for stock and another was a transfer for a customer.
ProfessorStoneFace
08-18-2009, 04:25 PM
pretty sure Rich said he was going to price them at $425 retail, really good deal for what you get.
pretty sure Rich said he was going to price them at $425 retail, really good deal for what you get.
Amazing deal considering MSRP is $499 and that is a good deal for what you get
JaxChris
08-18-2009, 06:41 PM
Shit, for 425$ I'll take one now please. Too bad I'd have to pay transfer & shipping which would kill it for me.
Chris... hold one for me..
Shit, for 425$ I'll take one now please. Too bad I'd have to pay transfer & shipping which would kill it for me.
Thought your boy up there would not charge you a transfer fee?
Chris... hold one for me..
You'll have to go to Texas to pick it up if you want him to hold one for ya.
You'll have to go to Texas to pick it up if you want him to hold one for ya.
:slapshoot: funny guy.. too many freaking Chris... Cris's on this site...
if you can get this rifle for $425 out the door.. I want one..
Don't forget the $5 background check. I will try to check later for ya. PM your number so I can let ya know.
ProfessorStoneFace
08-19-2009, 10:45 AM
yeah shipping these days is retarded but out of state your wouldn't pay sales tax, that would offset it a little.
WOW, Professor, you logged in twice this week.
JaxChris
08-19-2009, 11:09 AM
I meant tax and shipping, it would cost me 15$ to drive to Tactical Machining in Deland for the free transfer. So 425$ + 25$ shipping x 1.07 tax + 15$ gas = 496.50$. Not much of a deal anymore after that.
Once I find it on Buds for 430$ delivered I'll be in business. 430$ + 15$ gas = much happier. Saving 50$ is like 1500 rounds of ammo for that thing from Wal-Mart.
Yes, I want to pick up some more .22 myself. Can never have enough of that stuff especially how cheap it is.
JaxChris
08-19-2009, 11:41 AM
Yep, it's becoming the only choice for training ammo. That's why all these companies are jumping on the conversion and/or dedicated AR-22 bandwagon now.
For the amount you save in ammo cost you can pay for a conversion bolt and mags after you've shot your first 500 round brick.
Well the first one of the M&P 22's looks like it will be going to Lino, he put it on hold at Guntech.
oh yeah!!
Be patient Lino while I get the Rabbi to come make sure this is Kosher for you.
Be patient Lino while I get the Rabbi to come make sure this is Kosher for you.
bless you
ProfessorStoneFace
08-19-2009, 04:15 PM
guess I'll get the next one that comes in :D we gotta tell Rich to order a handful of these, I think if one is out on display they'll sell fast.
anthony20031
08-19-2009, 05:19 PM
think i will end up picking one up as well
Well the first one of the M&P 22's looks like it will be going to Lino, he put it on hold at Guntech.
if only Guntech were open during hours when people like me could get there... :(
If someone wants this right now... get it ,as it will take me a while to make it up to the shop to do my paperwork and get the sale started..
I absolutely want it, but making time during the week is difficult.. perhaps we could get them to meet me on a Sat am to do papers and get paid.. then I could sneak out at the end of next week and pick it up..
:( sad.. i wanted my new toy
ProfessorStoneFace
08-21-2009, 10:32 AM
they're going to order a few more along with extra magazines since they only come with one. I'm gonna call them today and remind them :)
I picked up the one they had in stock. I just put some Magpul front and rear flip ups on it for now. maybe next week I'll sneak out to the range and bring a couple different types of .22 ammo and see if one works better than the other.
ProfessorStoneFace
08-21-2009, 10:45 AM
oh yeah, Phil, where can you get barrels threaded? that's the only bummer with this gun, the barrel isn't threaded at the end so you can't put on a flash suppressor or suppressor down the road :)
JaxChris
08-21-2009, 10:48 AM
If you don't find anyone local, call up Ballistic Advantage in Central Florida. They'll be able to take care of it for you.
ProfessorStoneFace
08-21-2009, 10:53 AM
If you don't find anyone local, call up Ballistic Advantage in Central Florida. They'll be able to take care of it for you.
thanks! they're pretty reasonably priced too.
http://ballisticadvantagellc.com/services.php
since this purchase did not work out for me I started looking into other .22's
this looks pretty cool as well:
http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=66&productid=249
ProfessorStoneFace
08-21-2009, 11:11 AM
I just saw that somewhere in a catalog or something, that's pretty cool too! I wonder how it feels, the Sig 556 is kinda chunky to me personally.
JaxChris
08-21-2009, 01:03 PM
thanks! they're pretty reasonably priced too.
http://ballisticadvantagellc.com/services.php
Yes they are. He, Adam, is a great guy with pretty good communication considering the work load he has (makes barrels for Spike's Tactical in many calibers). He's also the one doing the melonite barrels that Spike's is getting all the rave reviews on, like in the last issue of Special Weapons for Military and Police (August).
I just saw that somewhere in a catalog or something, that's pretty cool too! I wonder how it feels, the Sig 556 is kinda chunky to me personally.
If its anything like the Sig 556 it will be a boat anchor also.
ProfessorStoneFace
08-21-2009, 01:05 PM
so they know what they're doing I guess :) I'll have to figure out how to get the barrel out of the 22 so I can send it off to them. just looking at it quickly it looks like it's just threaded in place. if that's the case then it shouldn't be too hard to take it out.
ProfessorStoneFace
08-21-2009, 01:07 PM
If its anything like the Sig 556 it will be a boat anchor also.
now if FN comes out with an inexpensive .22LR version of the SCAR I'd be all over that :D but since they can't keep up with production on the real SCAR I doubt a baby version will come out any time soon.
JaxChris
08-21-2009, 01:08 PM
Just shoot Adam an email and he'll probably tell you to just send the upper and we'll do the rest. The upper does come off on that toy right? =)
From the reviews I have heard that barrel comes off easier than the Colt.
JaxChris
08-21-2009, 01:13 PM
Too many airsoft 22's coming out. I think the point of a 22LR AR is so you can make it just like your real weapon, but can shoot cheaper ammo for training. So far these plastic toys aren't fully interchangeable to be outfitted the same as a regular AR. Granted the S&W is closer than the Colt is in this regard, but they are still plastic airsoft guns with serial numbers.
These things aren't worth more than 100$, especially if you expect it to hold up to some abuse & training.
I've read a few people elsewhere are already having problems with the Colt's screwing up after long range days and cracking from simple drops and rough bumps. You can definitely tell these aren't made of MagPul polymer. lol
ProfessorStoneFace
08-21-2009, 03:26 PM
Just shoot Adam an email and he'll probably tell you to just send the upper and we'll do the rest. The upper does come off on that toy right? =)
yeah this "toy" is almost identical to an AR unlike the Umarex Colt 22. I'll email him and see what he says, if he'll take the whole upper and do the rest I might do that unless it changes the price dramatically.
I should take some detailed pictures and post them since there's not all that much info on this thing yet. the upper breaks down with the two pins like an AR. the bolt and charging handle come out the same way. the stock and grip are AR parts. I even tried a Magpul CTR stock and it fit fine but was a little tight. kinda weird, both a commercial and a mil spec stock fit and both were a little snug, not sure how to explain that. the trigger is an AR trigger installed the same way. one day I might put in a RRA two stage but the stock trigger is actually nice, smoother than a stock bushy or DPMS for example. the mag release is exactly the same, the bolt catch is the same on the outside but slightly different inside so you couldn't use an AR bolt catch. the charging handle latch looks like it's just different enough that you couldn't use an aftermarket AR tactical latch but I'll double check tonight. and there's a brass deflector but no forward assist and no dust cover.
that's about all I can think of right now.
ProfessorStoneFace
08-21-2009, 04:23 PM
Too many airsoft 22's coming out. I think the point of a 22LR AR is so you can make it just like your real weapon, but can shoot cheaper ammo for training. So far these plastic toys aren't fully interchangeable to be outfitted the same as a regular AR. Granted the S&W is closer than the Colt is in this regard, but they are still plastic airsoft guns with serial numbers.
These things aren't worth more than 100$, especially if you expect it to hold up to some abuse & training.
I've read a few people elsewhere are already having problems with the Colt's screwing up after long range days and cracking from simple drops and rough bumps. You can definitely tell these aren't made of MagPul polymer. lol
this one does feel pretty solid, you can grip the crap out of the rail and it doesn't flex, like you said it's not like Magpul's polymer but it's really close. the Magpul flip up sights actually match the look and feel almost perfectly.
I guess it's two schools of thought. on the one side you can spend a few hundred bucks and have a .22LR upper for your existing AR15. then you can train and shoot cheap. the other side is that for the cost of the conversion you could have a complete new firearm. personally that's how I look at it, for the cost of the conversion (or less maybe) I have another complete firearm. now I'm putting all that wear and tear on a cheaper firearm instead of my rock river. plus if I go to the range I have something else that someone can borrow.
as far as putting stuff on the S&W .22 to match your real AR so far the only thing that might be tricky is putting on a single point sling. since the buffer tube doesn't come off you would have to get one that clamps onto the tube rather than one that replaces the end plate. I haven't messed with that yet but I'm sure it can be done.
the only thing that might be tricky is putting on a single point sling. since the buffer tube doesn't come off you would have to get one that clamps onto the tube rather than one that replaces the end plate.
I have one of those on my AR from M.I. with a QD
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u192/pichichi13/HPIM2991.jpg
JaxChris
08-21-2009, 09:04 PM
Well I haven't seen the M&P model yet with my own eyes, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. But the Colt model is flimsy as fuck and I've held cap guns that are more solid.
ProfessorStoneFace
08-21-2009, 10:42 PM
Well I haven't seen the M&P model yet with my own eyes, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. But the Colt model is flimsy as fuck and I've held cap guns that are more solid.
the killer for me on the Colt 22 is the safety. everything is ok then you grip it and realize how flimsy / crappy the safety is. then you notice the mag release and other parts are just as cheesy :( I loved the concept, it's just a bummer that they cheaped out on those pieces when they should have just grabbed off the shelf AR15 parts. how much can they really save with their plastic safety over a real one?
JaxChris
08-21-2009, 11:24 PM
Most of the weapon is plastic and made by an airsoft company (Umarex). You're talking about 120$ (about 1/2 of that is barrel) to make a decent paintball/airsoft gun, so about the same price to make these.
And the quality of a 400$ airsoft 22LR compared to a real AR is the same as comparing a 150$ electronic paintball marker against a 30$ Wal-Mart special. Just my opinion though, obviously.
ProfessorStoneFace
09-12-2009, 12:24 PM
little update, I picked up my M&P 15-22 a little while back, put the Magpul front and rear flip ups on it right away. when I got home I found my old Hogue grip that came with my Rock River so I put that on the M&P. since what would be the buffer tube is molded with the lower as one piece the spring and detent for the rear take down pin are held in place by the grip. so next to where the spring is for the safety you have a spring for the rear pin. at first I was worried that there would have to be a hole in the grip like there is for the safety spring but it's a standard AR grip so everything swapped fine.
that's all I've done so far, I'm fighting the urge to really go crazy since the point of it is to have an inexpensive rifle. while at GunTech we did play around with swapping stocks to see if standard AR stocks would fit and they do! kinda funny, both mil spec and commercial spec fit fine but are a little snug when you collapse them all the way. We tried Magpul stocks which fit pretty tight to a real buffer tube. I'm guessing that there's a little bit of a taper in the molded tube and that's why it's a little tight with the Magpul. the trigger and the safety are actual AR parts so if you want to swap out the trigger for something like the RRA two stage you could. or if you want an ambi safety you could swap that out too.
we haven't tried it yet to make sure but the charging handle latch doesn't look like it can be swapped for a tactical latch. on the M&P it looks like the latch is a little longer. and the bolt catch is different internally so that couldn't be swapped either. the magazine release looks identical though so I don't see why that couldn't be swapped out for something different if you wanted to.
I went out to Markham the other day and put about 300 rounds down range. I brought out the cheapest Winchester ammo and the cheapest Federal ammo they make. both types fed and shot perfect with only one failure to feed. on the one failure the bullet went up the feed ramp and right past the chamber and the bolt closed on it. we just figured it was a misshaped bullet since we shot another 100 rounds for so after that without a problem. I started at 25 yards just to make sure I was hitting paper since I forget my spotting scope, then I moved to 50 yards. I was pleased with the results at 50 yards considering it was pretty windy and I was shooting off hand, no bipod or anything. next time out I'll remember my spotting scope and get the sights dialed in a little tighter.
most importantly is was a lot of fun to shoot, I don't know fully why, maybe just because I'm not breaking the bank to shoot it :) I took a friend of mine out when I went to Markham who had never shot an AR15 before. I showed him the basics with the M&P before we went out there and it was a great teaching tool. the fact that it's functionally identical to my RRA AR meant that when we stopped shooting the M&P and went to the RRA he already knew what he was doing. that was nice and helped him feel comfortable shooting since he knew what to do safety wise, then he could just have fun. the real AR is still more fun because of the extra power in the shots, but the little 22 still put a smile on my face to shoot :)
last night we took the barrel off, by "we" I mean Phil :) Phil and Rich made a tool from a piece of conduit. to get the barrel off you have to have a tool to reach down the rail and get to a ring that's got four gaps in it. so they made a tool with 4 teeth and once it fit it came off without too much hassle. I've emailed back and forth with Adam at Ballistic Advantage and it turns out he has an M&P too and loves it. I'm going to send the barrel to him so he can thread it and I'll just put a flash suppressor on it for now. that's really the only thing missing from the factory to make it look identical to a real AR. I'll probably start the paperwork to get a suppressor for it before too long. ideally I'd like to get one suppressor that I can use on both the M&P and my Rock River but we'll see if that's practical. Phil mentioned that since the 22 ammo is so dirty that I may want to have a suppressor just for the 22.
That is fantastic. When I eventually get some cash together to finish current projects, that rifle is on my to own list. Now you have made more of a case for it to be there.
JaxChris
09-12-2009, 03:49 PM
Glad Adam at BA was able to accommodate you. He does good work. I'm currently waiting for him to get caught back up on barrel orders because the company that does his parkerizing ruined a full order of barrels and it has set him back a bit.
And Phil is giving good advice about the suppressor. Unless you want to get the Tac-16, which is easy to take apart and clean yourself, you'll want a dedicated 22 suppressor because it will choke a regular unit.
ProfessorStoneFace
09-12-2009, 04:05 PM
I like the idea of the Tac-16 since it's user serviceable. I just looked at it breifly and the site I found it on only had it listed for $450, that's pretty reasonable to me, less than other stuff I'd seen. if it breaks down fairly easy the idea of cleaning one extra part doesn't bother me.
spikes40
09-12-2009, 04:17 PM
i have a coastal .22 can that is fully servicable...very happy with it.. i think they are under 350.00
It's interesting. I like their suppressors for .22's and was not aware they made one for .223/5.56. It does say on the site that it is not to be used for .22LR even tho it is user servicable. I wonder why. Maybe not harmonically tuned for a .22? Tighter baffle bore? They still want to sell you a dedicated .22 suppressor? :idunno:
YHM makes all steel suppressors also and they are heavy as shit. Sometimes you want a little weight on the end of the muzzle. My sig 226 shoots better for me with the suppressor as there is absolutely no muzzle flip with the can on it and it also points better for fast shooting. On a light rifle like the M&P, I'm not so sure you would want a heavy suppressor.
spikes40
09-12-2009, 04:31 PM
professor if you would like to try out my coastal just say the word
ProfessorStoneFace
09-13-2009, 11:15 AM
professor if you would like to try out my coastal just say the word
that would be awesome! one day we'll have to organize something out at Pop Dean's, play with the suppressed stuff and tannerite :)
spikes40
09-13-2009, 11:42 AM
dont need pop deans for supressors...just tannerite...any pistol range will allow .22 supressed s&w
ProfessorStoneFace
09-13-2009, 01:51 PM
oh yeah, I just meant we could do whatever we want at pop dean's, tannerite, rapid fire, whatever.
fisherking73
06-21-2010, 06:49 AM
Anyone know how this compares to the sig 522? I am on the fence between Rugers version, S&W, and Sig's. Actually put the purchase off about 2 months ago cuz just could not decided. The Sig feels heaviest of the three, but very bare bones package. Colt was never an option for me.
Anyone know how this compares to the sig 522? I am on the fence between Rugers version, S&W, and Sig's. Actually put the purchase off about 2 months ago cuz just could not decided. The Sig feels heaviest of the three, but very bare bones package. Colt was never an option for me.
The Sig 522 is nicely made. The constuction and materials feel much more substantial than the S&W M&P and the Sig also uses readily available Black Dog mags. That said, it is also kind of neat having a AR style .22 for cheap training alternative to using an AR if you have one. The Ruger makes for a great project gun, but out of the box they don't have the "EBR" impact that the other two do..