View Full Version : Glock -vs- XD
YouTube - GLOCK vs XD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBdYBc0BLgQ) :)
spikes40
10-30-2009, 06:42 PM
niiiice... i wish i had a dime for everytime i was asked that question
Satan_3pc
10-30-2009, 10:43 PM
Ha! Yes, I agree with the guy on the stupid video. If you're constantly arguing about these two guns, "I hope you die in a fire!"
JaxChris
10-31-2009, 02:33 AM
"...you couldn't get a clue in a clue mating season..." HAHA
Chris
10-31-2009, 06:58 AM
That was great!
IraG2362
10-31-2009, 09:55 AM
awesome..
Perfect video.....laughed my ass off
"I hope you die in a fire!"
LMAO
doug5336
11-02-2009, 04:12 PM
The bottom line, with everything in life, no matter what it is (houses, cars, bikes, guns, clothes, food, etc). You buy what you want because YOU like it and it suits your needs.
If you buy anything to be popular, to fit in, or because someone else says it is good, then you need some help in building confidence, to say the least.
The bottom line, with everything in life, no matter what it is (houses, cars, bikes, guns, clothes, food, etc). You buy what you want because YOU like it and it suits your needs.
If you buy anything to be popular, to fit in, or because someone else says it is good, then you need some help in building confidence, to say the least.
Taurus FTW
Taurus FTW
Don't you think you are going just a wee overboard because they make decent revolvers? :raspberry: The closest thing they make to the Glock or XD is the Millenium Pro and it has a pretty interesting "flaw" in their manual safety.
billt
12-06-2010, 01:38 PM
I've never been a fan of the Springfield XD pistol. This is not meant as a slam to the firearm itself, or anyone who owns or prefers it, but rather an in depth look at how the pistol came about. The modern Springfield Armory XD pistol and it's derivatives, are all spin offs of the HS-2000 which was originally designed by Marko Vukovic and produced by I.M. Metals. The gun originally sold for $250.00 most everywhere, and no one wanted it. The gun was what it was, a cheaply made, imported semi auto that used a lot of MIM parts in it's manufacture, which was one of the main reasons they were able to keep it's cost down.
Then Springfield Armory came along and got involved, purchased the rights to manufacture it, jacked up the price $200.00+ dollars to help pay for the multi million dollar advertising blitz that ensued, tossed in $5 worth of cheap, molded plastic "Gear", and the Springfield XD was born. Sales took off, and the rest is history. It soon was heralded by shooters as the greatest thing to come along since Monday Night Football and 3 men in the booth. Springfield wanted a piece of the market Glock pretty much had the franchise on, and they didn't feel like trying to design a gun from scratch to do it. So they bought the rights to the HS-2000. Not a bad idea from a marketing standpoint if you think about it. It is far easier, and cheaper in the long run to buy advertising, than take on the risk of designing a new handgun, then turn around try to sell it and turn a profit.
The funny thing is Smith & Wesson had a chance to do exactly what Springfield did from I.M. Metals, but balked on the idea. Ever since then they've been breaking their backs to come up with their own design to compete. Thus far the Sigma with it’s design issues, as well as the M&P with all of it’s slide rusting issues, have proven to be more problematic than profitable.
When the Glock pistol came out in the early 80's, it was scoffed at for the most part. No one really took it seriously, and thought it would last about as long as Madonna. ("Like A Virgin" was at the top of the charts at the time). It did, just not the way most had envisioned. By the time the design took off every gun manufacturer in the country was scurrying to get something on the market to compete. Many of the guns back then were really bad designs that were problem plagued and didn't survive in the marketplace very long. The Springfield XD did, not because of it's design, but rather in spite of it. The Springfield XD pistol has proven how well mass marketing of a given product can work. If you think about it, all it lacked at the time was Billy May’s trying to sell it on a 1:00 AM Infomercial.
While over the years they have improved it somewhat, it is still based on the original Vukovic / I.M. Metals / HS-2000 design, much like most all 1911's made today are nothing more than copies of John M. Browning's design. The difference is Browning's design was based on gun making genius, rather than nothing more than a fancy ad campaign of a cheaply made gun. In this regard Marko Vukovic, while having designed a very profitable firearm, has a long way to go to catch Mr. Browning. Bill T.
Secpro
12-06-2010, 02:24 PM
Bill T, you are right!! i still like the XD even though and think it will stand the test of time right along with the Glock. There have been some mods done to it since it's inception, but overall it still is an HS200. It looks similiar minus a few parts and the feel is a bit different, but it is what it is!!
anthony20031
12-06-2010, 02:46 PM
LOL funny this is about the same thing I said and I got slammed lol
Secpro
12-06-2010, 02:54 PM
LOL funny this is about the same thing I said and I got slammed lol
I no see your post??
If you did get slammed it is probably because you are queer bill T is wise! hahaha
anthony20031
12-06-2010, 03:03 PM
LOL it was a long while back in another post....although I may have not been as diplomatic about it lol
Secpro
12-06-2010, 03:19 PM
LOL it was a long while back in another post....although I may have not been as diplomatic about it lol
And that is probably why we nutt checked you........lmao
Bashing a gun for rust? Sounds like an owner issue of improper maintenance. You make it sound like the Glock will not rust, as it does take a bit more, I have seen plenty that will rust. Let's face it, the Glock was designed for idiots, a reliable weapon that was very forgiving when it came to proper maintenance. Once again, targeted to idiots. I also "love" a weapon that is the thug weapon of choice, another reason why I choose not be a part of the Glock world. I can go on all day on this, I still will choose a XD over a Glock and even a S&W M&P.
JaxChris
12-06-2010, 11:38 PM
I'll end up on Cris' side of this debate, but not necessarily for all the same reasons.
Also, the HS-2000 is the civilian designation of the original XD, the Croatian PHP (national military service weapon). The reason it cost 250$ was due to the fact that HS-2000's were subsidizing the manufacturing of the Croatian military models. I only really agree with the 200$ increase when Springfield took over. But this increase also includes lifetime warranty. A perk of this is that because it is Springfield now and not HS, accessory companies are making items for them. Notice nobody makes accessories for Hi-Points?
And the XD has more parts than the Glock, exact same materials and coatings, more included equipment, better factory cases, and still costs 100$ less than Glock.
Hell, are we going to bash Diamondback now because they specifically made their first pistol look like a mini Glock? No, I'd rather talk about how the zero energy striker system works and how reliable that system could be made in order to make it into future firearms. A smooth double action striker that doesn't suffer from any spring fatigue from being stored in the cocked position for months on end would make a great update to law enforcement service weapons while still allowing a "safe-action" pistol. And for safe-action, I still prefer passive safeties over active safeties or no safeties. The combo of grip and trigger safeties on the XD are what I feel is the best for a safe carry weapon.
If S&W could work the kinks out of the M&P pistols a little more and include an ambi-mag release plus a grip safety I would be in love with it for being a 100% ambi safe-action pistol.
I think that with the advancements of firearms since the Glock was invented, that even though it was 10 years ahead of the rest it is actually 10 years behind where the market is going now. You can't sit on the same function and design forever - unless you want your patents to expire and lose yourself to a million clones like Colt has with the 1911 and M4.
billt
12-07-2010, 05:40 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf6bMnwAQ1E&feature=player_embedded
Same environment. Same cleaning and lubricating methods. Springfield XD = RUST. Glock = ZERO RUST.
This is just one of all but countless examples out there. My biggest issue with both the Smith & Wesson M&P line of pistols, as well as the Springfield Armory XD line is the constant slide rusting issues that come up all the time with these guns. The Smith & Wesson M&P Models are having severe rusting issues with the slide, and have been for some time now. Google "Smith & Wesson M&P slide rusting issues", and you'll get the phone book.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GUEA_enUS362US362&q=Smith+%26+Wesson+slide+rusting+issues
This is being caused by the inferior Melonite treatment process to the slide itself. Springfield Armory went through much the same thing with their XD line of pistols a while back. That process did not involve Melonite, but the result was much the same. The slides themselves rusted like an old railroad track, especially when carried in a cold climate. When going from the cold outdoors into a warm building the in / out condensation rusted the slides on these guns in no time.
The reason for this is Melonite, and all of the other trade names this process is sold under, are far inferior to the Tenifer process that is used by Glock. I know someone will argue that, but it is a fact. Melonite, along with the other processes like Tufftride and Nitride, (both gas and liquid), are sold as being, "Just as good". The fact of the matter is they are not. Certainly not from a rust and or corrosion standpoint. The best proof of this over the years is both companies, (Smith & Wesson and Springfield Armory), who have used the Melonite process, or ones similar to it including the forms of different Phosphate treatments, have all experienced rusting issues, while a Tenifer treated Glock is all but impossible to acquire any rust on in most any environment. This has been proven over and over in torture treatment after torture treatment involving everything from ocean immersion for months on end to storage in rock salt. Tenifer beats all other anti rust metal treatments hands down. It also reduces the coefficient of friction of the surface itself substantially. It is one of the reasons Glock treats the inside of the barrel itself with it. The Tenifer process is .005 M.M. thick, and is close to the hardness of Diamond. This is why it wears so well. It literally takes years of daily carry for a Glock pistol to develop any kind of holster wear on the slide because of this process.
The reason S&W and Springfield Armory don't use it is because the Tenifer process is banned in this country because it cannot be made to meet EPA environmental standards. This is why the Glock pistol is made in Austria, but assembled in this country in Georgia. Glock applies the Tenifer in Austria where the slide and barrel itself is manufactured. The parts are then shipped here, and the pistol assembled, boxed, and shipped to various distributors.
The Springfield Armory XD line of pistols are made in Croatia, but are shipped as completed guns. There really is no reason they could not use the Tenifer process on their XD line unless there is a logistics problem in getting it done, or else there may be a cost issue. I don't know, but I do know that Glock has it, and Springfield does not. Because of that an XD is far more likely to acquire rusting issues than any Glock ever will.
There is in fact zero reason for a modern defensive carry pistol to be prone to rust in today's manufacturing era. These metal treatments are out there. Glock has proven for over 25 years they do in fact work. A Glock has proven to be one of the most, if not THE most weather resistant handgun manufactured to date. You should not have to keep a modern defensive pistol soaked with oil to prevent it from rusting. That is total nonsense. It isn't the 1950's anymore. The other manufacturers tout their metal treatment processes like Melonite as "Just as good", when in fact it has been proven they are not. S&W needs to step up to the plate here. It is 2010 and they are having trouble matching manufacturing standards Glock has set the bar at in the early 80's. To me that is totally unacceptable in today's day and age. Bill T.
JaxChris
12-07-2010, 06:27 AM
Melonite, Tenifer, and Tufftride are all marketing names for different levels of the same Nitrocarburizing process.
The 3 levels of Nitrocarburizing treatment are: Q, QP, & QPQ. Tenifer is a European trade name for QPQ. In the US, all 3 levels are referred to as Melonite and only the process level is descriptive. There is nothing EPA related that prevents the application of QPQ in the US or Croatia. Also, starting in the early 90's, Glock's plating partner had to change their application process with the rest of Europe to gradually lower the amount of Cyanide salts in the Q-baths. Today no cyanide salts are allowed in the process anywhere.
Here is the company that does the Melonite/Tenifer processing for Glock barrels and slides: http://www.durferrit.de/en/produkte/waermebehandlung/nitrocarbonitrieren.htm
Q provides the greatest hardness. This is typically Tufftride in marketing.
QP provides the lower friction. This is typically Melonite in marketing.
QPQ provides the lowest reflectivity. This is typically Tenifer in marketing.
Glock uses Carbon Steel, while the XD's & M&P's use Stainless Steel. Glock also adds an additional black coating to the slide (I believe they use black oxide coating), Springfield does not add an additional coating. That is the Glock "secret sauce" that differentiates their products. Carbon steel will rust. The extra black coating is a protective layer in case of those possible thin areas in the Melonite process.
XD's are backwards from that. The naked stainless steel would actually not rust, but the Melonite processing introduces additional carbon. Carbon in steel is what oxidizes.
The only XD's that have suffered from slide rust are ones whose core components were made before 2007. In fact, most XD's sold in 2007 were made in 2006 when the gear kits first came out and whose model numbers on their box end in SP06. I have 2 XD45c's that were made in 2008 and imported in 2008. One suffered from corrosion of an internal component which caused excess tension on a spring. That is not a slide or barrel rust issue like older XD's, but I'm mentioning it to be fair. The other has yet to have any problems.
Both Glock & Springfield have their barrels processed the same as the slides, but neither applies an additional coating to the interior or exterior surfaces of the barrels. Because the extra coating is missing from the Glock barrel, in contract to their slides, you are more likely to see rust form along the grooves inside the barrel where the Nitrocarburizing has wore thin and allowed the carbon to oxidate.
billt
12-07-2010, 07:30 AM
Melonite, Tenifer, and Tufftride are all marketing names for different levels of the same Nitrocarburizing process.
While they are similar, they are not the same. They use different chemicals and time constraints in their application. If you look up the MSDS sheets on the processes and you will see it. This is the reason the actual Tenifer process that is used by Glock cannot be applied in this country due to EPA regulations. If these processes were in fact identical, there would be no rusting issues with either the XD or the Smith & Wesson M&P. There in fact are, and they are severe in nature. Glock has never had any rust or corrosion issues with any of their handguns since there introduction over 25+ years ago.
The bottom line with any and all of this is the simple fact Glock got it right the first time. In what is now 4 generations of the same gun, all that has changed are ergonomic and cosmetic issues. You don't try to fix what isn't broke. Most all of the problems I've come across with shooters with Glock pistols were because of only 2 reasons. Faulty ammunition, (lead bullets or reloads), or else issues with aftermarket parts. Glock doesn't need to change anything. This fact is proven with everyone else trying to play catch up for the last 25 years, and not being able to accomplish it on anywhere near the scale Glock enjoys. This is because their designs either fail in the marketplace, (S&W Sigma), or else are undergoing constant design changes and or recalls. No one can even come close to Glock's sales figures, or worldwide adoption by militaries and law enforcement agencies around the globe. I'm not saying these other guns are "bad". But as long as Glock is around they will always be in second place. There is simply no getting around that, regardless of what one's personal opinion is of the pistol. Bill T.
billt
12-07-2010, 08:54 AM
http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90
This has been floating around cyberspace for a couple of years now. There are also videos of it posted all over You Tube as well. It just proves yet again what the Glock can be subjected to, and keep on going when others simply will not. No other pistol has been subjected to as many, or as rigorous of torture tests as the Glock. Bill T.
http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory11.php
RCSRT8
12-07-2010, 02:16 PM
after all this I need to take a piss
billt
12-07-2010, 02:45 PM
after all this I need to take a piss
No, just buy a Glock! Bill T.
Sorry Bill, he has taste. LOL!!!
billt
12-07-2010, 02:55 PM
Sorry Bill, he has taste. LOL!!!
Everybody does, even if it's bad. Bill T.
Everybody does, even if it's bad. Bill T.
I actually agree with ya for once, just look at all the Glock owners out there.
billt
12-08-2010, 05:43 AM
I only really agree with the 200$ increase when Springfield took over. But this increase also includes lifetime warranty.
You will need it because Springfield will not sell parts to the buying public. If a Springfield XD goes down, the only place that can fix it is the factory. That means weeks without your gun. If you shoot in IDPA and your XD breaks in practice the day before a big match, you're out of luck unless you buy 2. One to run and one for parts. That is not so far fetched. 2 shooters at my club have done just that because they got tired of waiting weeks every time their XD's broke a part. It's easier to cannibalize one in order to keep the other running.
And the XD has more parts than the Glock.
That provides a disadvantage in 2 ways. More costly to manufacture, and more likely to break. A Glock only has 34 parts, all of which can be purchased inexpensively on line at any one of hundreds of firearm supply outlets, or at most any well stocked gun shop. This means in the rare instance a Glock should go down, it can be up and running again in hours if not minutes because parts are avaliable most everywhere. The pistol is so simple to disassemble a shooter can keep several inexpensive parts with him and have a gun up and running during a match break. Not so with the XD. There is just no advantage to having a warranty if it causes so much downtime every time you need to use it. Simple is always better. Bill T.
Secpro
12-08-2010, 07:21 AM
I like intelligent debate. Been a while since we've seen this here.
I'm not sure where you are seeing all these problems from XD's from. I have sold many, I know many people who own them, with absolutely no failures. Glock is the simplest gun that is for sure, again back to the idiot proof theory. I work at a Glock certified shop, I never saw that reason for having all those Glock parts there, if "Glock was such a great gun". Why have all those parts there, if they are so great. Makes ya think, doesn't it. Maybe Glock isn't the best, just easiest to fix when it breaks down.
billt
12-08-2010, 09:19 AM
I'm not sure where you are seeing all these problems from XD's from.
I'm not saying they have "all these problems". What I am saying is if you have ANY problems you are not going to be able to purchase parts to rectify it, period. Bill T.
Bicho
12-08-2010, 11:05 AM
While they are similar, they are not the same. But as long as Glock is around they will always be in second place. There is simply no getting around that, regardless of what one's personal opinion is of the pistol. Bill T.
+1.. Love my Block....:cheers:
Secpro
12-08-2010, 11:55 AM
I'm not saying they have "all these problems". What I am saying is if you have ANY problems you are not going to be able to purchase parts to rectify it, period. Bill T.
But do you purchase the parts and do the fix yourself or do you take it to a smith? 90% of people take it to a smith to have the work done. There are XD Armorers out there that service these firearms and I would think they had access to parts from the manufacturer.
JaxChris
12-10-2010, 07:22 AM
What do you mean be without your weapon for weeks? I called Springfield on my personal issue, there was a pre-paid overnight label in my e-mail before I got off the phone with them. I dropped the weapon off at Fedex next to my job on the way home that day, and 2 days later my weapon was back in my hands.
That is faster than you can get it in and back from most gunsmith shops. And what is wrong with Springfield taking personal attention to each weapon to verify everything in the weapon instead of just swapping one particular bad part. They are the most experienced and have the best means to inspect the entire weapon during a repair job. Letting Springfield do the work for me, at no cost to me, is nothing to frown at. Where if you have a Glock, are you going to know how to identify metal fatigue in each internal part while you have it apart? Only a truly decent armorer might.
If you care to hold to your fallacy about Tenifer being somehow different and illegal to process in this country, fine. Continue to be brainwashed by a bunch of idiots that think everything Glock does is superior. Apparently you didn't even read what I posted which explained how the two are processed differently but that there is nothing different between them.
XD = QP
Glock = QPQ
Q = Quench
P = Polish
Q = Quench
The Q-baths and their contents are identical. Nitrocarburizing is the actual name of the process, and there is only one way to do it. The "extra time" is that Glock pays for QPQ, which means it is Quenched a second time after the Polish process.
How is it I explain the details on exactly how it is done and you completely skip debating everything I said and continue to say "Glock does something better with like super rare space born fairy dust and they do it longer harder and without a fluffer".
Please, provide actual evidence or links or references to firm details on the finishing process differences that you think exist in GlockWorld. Not just a link to some ultimate fan boy that dunked his weapon in everything he could find, hosed it off, and then fired about 500 rounds through it. Any gun worth its weight can do that. Hell, I can make a weapon look like it's fired 10k rounds in one sitting by spraying it with CLP, shaking off the excess, toss the weapon in concrete dust, and then firing 50 rounds through it.
"Glock does something better with like super rare space born fairy dust and they do it longer harder and without a fluffer".
OMG, LMMFAO!!! That has to be the funniest line I have ever heard.
Thanks for the education on the process's though.
billt
12-13-2010, 08:50 AM
Continue to be brainwashed by a bunch of idiots that think everything Glock does is superior.
How is it I explain the details on exactly how it is done and you completely skip debating everything I said and continue to say "Glock does something better with like super rare space born fairy dust and they do it longer harder and without a fluffer".
You like facts?, good, so do I. I find it hilarious when XD lovers start in about how Glock owners and shooters are 'brainwashed", when the entire existence of the Springfield XD pistol is based on nothing but advertising hype. You want proof?, then digest these facts:
When the Springfield XD was in fact the HS-2000, they couldn't give the damn thing away for $250.00. It was nothing more than a cheaply made, imported pistol full of MIM parts. Springfield doubled the price, hyped the crap out of it, and now all we hear about is how it's "Just as good as a Glock", and how "Glock owners buy into all of the hype." Want some more facts? Try these:
The one and only thing the XD is superior to the Glock in is handle diameter and that's only for people with short fingers. That's it. Even that is suspect now that Glock has introduced the SF frame model. Other reasons given to the XD's superiority are subjective to opinion and nothing else.
A few of the given so called "reasons" XDs are better I've read:
Price.
The Glock is about $80 more than the XD. I don't know many people who think $80 is something to worry about with something that protects your life. I just put $80 worth of gas in my truck this morning.
Machining quality/manufacture.
I have seen XDs go out for warranty work, (sometimes complete replacement due to inability to repair). Cracked frames, ftf, stovepiping, chambers needing to be honed. The list goes on and on.
Durability.
Like the aforementioned reason - it's false. Most people have this opinion based on only having a few thousand (if that) rounds through their XDs. At the indoor range I shoot at they are constantly having problems with their XD rentals, (see previous reason problems), while Glocks usually run about 100,000 rounds through them before they cycle a new one into the mix. Those are 100,000 trouble free rounds. Consistently. Wait a few more years when all of these XDs get some real use.
Ergonomics.
XD likes to tout this one in their advertising as well saying that when you point it the sights line up rather than having you look at the top of the slide. Glock went with their 105 degree handle angle for a reason: they tested, tested and did some more testing and found that it provided the best firing results for accuracy and following shots. The XD's handle angle along with its high barrel axis to the hand provide much more muzzle flip than a Glock which in turn means less accurate double-taps and a less control. When the Austrian military trials were announced, Gaston Glock got the list of requirements for the new pistol. Then he compiled a list of consultants, including Medical Doctors, to advise in the design of his pistol entry. These consultants were all asked, from the perspective of their field of expertise, how they would design a handgun. From the Doctors, he needed the proper rake angle for the physiology of the human hand while holding a pistol. The Doctors set the angle, and GG designed the pistol according to the specs received from his consultants. The grip angle allows the pistol to point like the index finger for those who do not have any experience with shooting a handgun. For those who learned to shoot on just about anything else, it takes some getting used to.
Single action vs double action.
The Glock uses the double action for safety. It's one of the reasons it's called Safe-Action. If the striker spring isn't cocked - it can't fire! Just like a down hammer. The XD has a cocked spring. You can count on replacing the striker spring many more times in an XD than a Glock because of this. You also better hope your firing pin block is in proper working order or you're at the mercy of the poorly designed sear of the XD which, by the way, will fire out of battery. Try pushing back on the slide sometime while pulling the trigger. The double action might not be as smooth, clean or as short a pull of the single action, but these are service pistols not target pistols.
The slide lock.
The slide lock on the Glock is designed to be tight against the frame and slide as to not be snagged on anything. They also wanted people to use two hands to release the slide because it's a more controlled manner than hitting the lock with your thumb. This isn't the movies! Release the slide the proper way. The slide lock on the XD also adds a decent amount to the overall width of the weapon - not very carry friendly.
Finish.
Tenifer is not the outside coating. Tenifer is the metal treatment of the slide and barrel itself. It is .005 mm thick and is close the the hardness of diamond. The treatment of the metal itself achieves a 99.9% salt water resistance. Tenifer is also illegal in this country because the EPA. XD does not have it. Don't regularly oil the slide on your XD and carry it in a cold climate for a while. The in/out condensation will rust your slide in no time.
Warranty.
Good thing Springfield has you covered here, you're going to need it. Especially when you find out Springfield won’t sell parts to the public.
Field stripping.
The Glock actually uses a faster process which uses less steps than the XD. Also, many people rotate the take-down lever then pull the slide lock down putting all forward inertia of the slide to come to a halt against the sear (it's the only thing keeping the slide from going forward at that point) and cause damage to the sear, striker and frame.
Loaded chamber indicator.
Glock has this as well.
Cocked indicator.
Glock has this as well. If the trigger is forward on a Glock, it's cocked. Also, how are you going to get a round into the chamber on either of these guns without it being cocked? It's not a Walther with a decocker.
Grip safety.
How is a gun going to go off without your hand on the handle? Your finger should never be inside the trigger guard unless you have the weapon acquired and intend to fire. Are we forgetting some basic firearm rules? The grip safety is null and void.
Customization.
If you can't find genuine Glock custom parts for your Glock at your local gun dealer, you need to find a new one. Glock holsters, parts and accessories are everywhere. Try to find a holster for your XD. It's much more difficult. Yes, it's newer and takes a while, but companies will be reluctant to make them because Springfield supplies you with one, albeit a horrible one with not one level of retention.
I felt the need to debunk these XD/Glock myths. The XD is not even close the being up to par with the Glock. The Glock is going on over 25 years now, and has changed the world of pistols - the XD won't make that sort of impact. Bill T.
billt
12-13-2010, 01:19 PM
Here is another question you might want to answer for yourself after you're done with the "high" your getting off your XD. If these 2 processes are the same, as so so love to point out time and time again. Then why is Tenifer ILLEGAL to apply in this country? Common sense dictates if 2 things are identical, they should both be legal as far as the ability to both be produced. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME OR YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO PURCHASE BOTH! Here is yet another wake up call for you. XD's rust and Glocks don't. I can, and in fact have, shown you XD's that have rusted, when Glocks sitting right next to them HAVE NOT. I have NEVER seen the converse. Please feel free to correct me with a link, ANY LINK, showing a rusted Glock sitting next to a unscathed Springfield XD under the exact same conditions. If these pistols have received the same treatment NEITHER OF THEM WOULD HAVE RUSTED.
You have the audacity of telling me I buy into "hype". Yet the "hype" I buy doesn't rust, isn't a substandard pistol that sold for half of what it is selling for now because of only advertising, and has no parts avaliable from the manufacturer to it's customer base. Wake up. The Springfield XD is what it is, and will never be anything more. An imported semi auto pistol that fell into the hands of marketing geniuses. They dressed it up, took it out, and sold it for far more than it was worth. A street whore does much the same thing. The only difference is the whore uses nylons, makeup, high heels, and a short skirt. The Springfield XD uses it's name, a logo, a $2 plastic case that hold a $250 dollar pistol along with a $2 "holster", and a $1 dollar "Magazine holder". Either way the buyer takes it up the ass. At least the whore smells good while you're "getting it". Again, nothing but fact. Bill T.
billt
12-13-2010, 01:39 PM
http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/SpringfieldXDCrackedSlide.jpg
And if you like your semi auto's ported, don't buy a Springfield XD. Bill T.
Secpro
12-13-2010, 02:27 PM
Hey like my XD bottom line and have held and fired all of the above firearms; the HS2000, XDs, and Glocks. They all go back when the trigger is pulled but I hat the HS2000 for its ergonomics and allot of the uses you say, but with that marketing genius of Springfield also came a few other touch ups that I like as well. As for added parts I can careless I have a principle of having 2 of the same guns anyway jic a malfunction occurs. Glocks I hated until the Gen 4 came out. The Gen 4 corrected the shitty grip I hated on the original, it may even have corrected the funk trigger I hated, but I haven't fired one yet to know.
They do what they're supposed to and have there place in firearm history. Will I be switching to Glock for my new duty gun when money permits? Hell yeah, because price dictates I should. Not to mention the aspect of uniformity among the other personnel I work with. Mag changes etc. Some PDs use XDs and have no issues that you are claiming, so its a matter of preference as anything else. All the funky facts mean nada if you're not comfortable with a firearm!
JaxChris
12-13-2010, 02:31 PM
OMG... seriously? Again with the Tenifer being illegal?
Please provide proof of your statements - because most of what you are posting is nothing but copy/paste of Glock fanboyism from other sites: PROOF (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=17259,28104&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=Field+stripping.+The+Glock+actually+uses+a+faste r+process+which+&cp=0&pf=p&sclient=psy&site=&source=hp&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=Field+stripping.+The+Glock+actually+uses+a+fast er+process+which+&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=267856ed3ee60de5)
Are you not going to have a unique and original thought in this debate Bill? I mean seriously, you haven't done any research other than read other sites and drank the Glock mythology kool-aid.
You are just going around in circles and posting other peoples incorrect bullshit. This means you haven't personally seen 100,000 round error-free Glocks (let me guess, they did it with no lube too?).
Think of this like college. You just copied someone else ill-conceived report thinking that person knew what they were talking about, but you were wrong - and now you have failed.
Until someone from the Glock camp will come in here with a well researched arguments, with proof providable from industry sources and non copy/paste of idiots on other websites, I am sitting this out. Only unique thoughts and opinions belong in debates.
Secpro
12-13-2010, 02:35 PM
OMG... seriously? Again with the Tenifer being illegal?
Please provide proof of your statements - because most of what you are posting is nothing but copy/paste of Glock fanboyism from other sites: PROOF (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=17259,28104&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=Field+stripping.+The+Glock+actually+uses+a+faste r+process+which+&cp=0&pf=p&sclient=psy&site=&source=hp&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=Field+stripping.+The+Glock+actually+uses+a+fast er+process+which+&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=267856ed3ee60de5)
Are you not going to have a unique and original thought in this debate Bill? I mean seriously, you haven't done any research other than read other sites and drank the Glock mythology kool-aid.
You are just going around in circles and posting other peoples incorrect bullshit. This means you haven't personally seen 100,000 round error-free Glocks (let me guess, they did it with no lube too?).
Think of this like college. You just copied someone else ill-conceived report thinking that person knew what they were talking about, but you were wrong - and now you have failed.
Until someone from the Glock camp will come in here with a well researched arguments, with proof providable from industry sources and non copy/paste of idiots on other websites, I am sitting this out. Only unique thoughts and opinions belong in debates.
http://pistolsmith.com/glock-pistols/20295-glock-vs-xd.html :rich:
billt
12-13-2010, 02:49 PM
Standing on your total stupidity and ignorance isn't going to "prove" anything. By me or anyone else. It's illegal. I told you look up the MSDS on it. I have, you have not, or else you wouldn't be spewing your nonsense. If you want Tenifer you cannot get it done in this country because the EPA will not allow it. It is just as simple as that. Just because you don't wish to believe fact does not make it fallacy you can log in your nonsense file. FACT: Glock is the first. FACT: Glock is the best selling worldwide. FACT: Glock is used by more militaries and law enforcement than any other handgun. FACT Glock is the most reliable on the market. Now, go wallow away in your XD, MIM, overpriced, under developed Marko Vukovic wonder gun. I'll stick with the best. You can have the rest. I'll even bet you can shoot your XD sideways while listening to Jay-Z or Puff Dick! Bill T.
billt
12-13-2010, 03:00 PM
http://pistolsmith.com/glock-pistols/20295-glock-vs-xd.html :rich:
http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/handgun-misc/50217-springfield-xd-series-3.html
:rich: :rich: :rich: This is enjoyable! Info looks correct to me as well. Bill T.
anthony20031
12-13-2010, 03:02 PM
Ah where is the popcorn icon when you need it lol
M@D-M@X
12-13-2010, 04:04 PM
Ah where is the popcorn icon when you need it lol
Here you go. I hope I'm not too late.....
http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz278/MAD-MAX-D-1/Avatars/popcorn-gazelle.gif
http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz278/MAD-MAX-D-1/Avatars/costanzaPopcorn.gif
anthony20031
12-13-2010, 04:19 PM
LOL awesome
http://stobal.net/stobal/jackson-popcorn.gif
JaxChris
12-13-2010, 09:26 PM
Standing on your total stupidity and ignorance isn't going to "prove" anything. By me or anyone else. It's illegal. I told you look up the MSDS on it. I have, you have not, or else you wouldn't be spewing your nonsense. If you want Tenifer you cannot get it done in this country because the EPA will not allow it. It is just as simple as that. Just because you don't wish to believe fact does not make it fallacy you can log in your nonsense file. FACT: Glock is the first. FACT: Glock is the best selling worldwide. FACT: Glock is used by more militaries and law enforcement than any other handgun. FACT Glock is the most reliable on the market. Now, go wallow away in your XD, MIM, overpriced, under developed Marko Vukovic wonder gun. I'll stick with the best. You can have the rest. I'll even bet you can shoot your XD sideways while listening to Jay-Z or Puff Dick! Bill T.
Ok seriously. Please get your federal agencies correct. The MSDS is a requirement for OSHA, not the EPA. The EPA only evaluates the toxicity of the chemicals. There is no MSDS for Tenifer, because it is Marketed as Melonite in the United States. Same reason there is no MSDS for Tufftride, it's the same damn thing. Saying "omg, there is no MSDS for Tenifer because it is illegal" is invalid. You can find limited detail MSDS for nitrocarburizing and Melonite, but you won't find full due to patents and trade secrets.
The MSDS and material compound list for Melonite are not distributed with full detail unless you are a licensed plater for the process - because it is a patented technique. Are you a licensed plater? Which shop do you own/operate/work for? And how about you provide those trade secrets if you are so in-the-know?
If you look at Glock's plating company, which I linked to earlier, they outline as much of the process as they are willing to share. They also interchange the word Tenifer & Tufftride through the document. Why would they do that? Hmm.
Melonite/Tufftride/Tenifer is not illegal in the US.
Also, why is it this isn't the only forum where you're alone on your side of the argument, being told you're wrong, and still won't listen?
LINK HERE (http://ingunowners.com/forums/handguns/11524-if_glocks_are_so_popular_then-12.html#post1425395) <<<---- Now that is a funny thread to read.
At least in this post I'm quoting you on it finally does have some solid statements in it. Yes, Glock was first. Yes, Glock sells more than the XD's and M&P's combined. Yes, more LEA's use Glock than any other pistol. But that still doesn't make you right about everything else in this thread that you're wrong about. Glock is not superior. Tenifer is not different than Melonite. And you are still apparently wrong on each forum that you are starting this debate on.
Do you work for some company that benefits from all this disinformation? Or do you still insist that you are right and the rest of the world is wrong? The only place that will believe and drink this Kool-Aid you are pouring is GlockTalk.
billt
12-14-2010, 04:32 AM
Ok seriously. Please get your federal agencies correct. The MSDS is a requirement for OSHA, not the EPA. The EPA only evaluates the toxicity of the chemicals. There is no MSDS for Tenifer, because it is Marketed as Melonite in the United States. Same reason there is no MSDS for Tufftride, it's the same damn thing. Saying "omg, there is no MSDS for Tenifer because it is illegal" is invalid. You can find limited detail MSDS for nitrocarburizing and Melonite, but you won't find full due to patents and trade secrets.
The MSDS and material compound list for Melonite are not distributed with full detail unless you are a licensed plater for the process - because it is a patented technique. Are you a licensed plater? Which shop do you own/operate/work for? And how about you provide those trade secrets if you are so in-the-know?
If you look at Glock's plating company, which I linked to earlier, they outline as much of the process as they are willing to share. They also interchange the word Tenifer & Tufftride through the document. Why would they do that? Hmm.
Melonite/Tufftride/Tenifer is not illegal in the US.
Also, why is it this isn't the only forum where you're alone on your side of the argument, being told you're wrong, and still won't listen?
LINK HERE (http://ingunowners.com/forums/handguns/11524-if_glocks_are_so_popular_then-12.html#post1425395) <<<---- Now that is a funny thread to read.
At least in this post I'm quoting you on it finally does have some solid statements in it. Yes, Glock was first. Yes, Glock sells more than the XD's and M&P's combined. Yes, more LEA's use Glock than any other pistol. But that still doesn't make you right about everything else in this thread that you're wrong about. Glock is not superior. Tenifer is not different than Melonite. And you are still apparently wrong on each forum that you are starting this debate on.
Do you work for some company that benefits from all this disinformation? Or do you still insist that you are right and the rest of the world is wrong? The only place that will believe and drink this Kool-Aid you are pouring is GlockTalk.
Good Lord this is getting old. Please explain to me if the processes are the same, (as you constantly and continually put forth they are), why one is avaliable here, and one is not? Common sense dictates that is impossible. Why would the EPA allow one process, but not the other IF BOTH ARE IDENTICAL?? Look up the Tenifer process. THEN pull the MSDS sheets on the chemicals used in it. Do the same for Melonite, Tufftride, Nitride, (both gas and liquid). You will then discover the chemicals used in these processes, along with the time constraints they are applied are totally different. I can't spell it out any more clearly than that, nor should I have to.
And after that you can figure out why Glock has never, repeat, never had a rust or corrosion issue ever with their pistols, while both Springfield as well as Smith & Wesson HAVE with both the XD and the M&P models, both so serious in nature they involved expensive voluntary recalls to correct the issues. If all of these process were as identical as you claim they are, these rusting and corrosion issues would have never happened to either S&W or Springfield, would they? Again, I'm simply applying common sense. Again, you can prove it to yourself by looking at the chemicals each process utilizes. I have done my own leg work in this regard, and proven this to myself. So can you. As for what others do and don't believe, that I cannot control, nor do I care.
They believe the XD is "better" than the Glock out of the gate, so again in applying common sense why would they believe the processes are different even though the XD has had rusting issues? Much like liberals, common sense thinking doesn't factor in to the equation when all you want is to swallow the hype. This is what I find to hypocritically funny when XD lovers tout Glock owners as "buying into the hype". Hype and advertising have made the Springfield Armory XD pistol what it is today, not a superior design application. That has been well proven as well. No one wanted it before it was heavily advertised and promoted by Springfield, yet it was the exact same gun without a cheap case, holster, and magazine holder. All of which combined could be manufactured for under $5.00.
Moving on, finally! Since you are so concerned about my background, I work for a large aerospace manufacturing company. We do work for Boeing, Hamilton Sunstrand, Bell Helicoptor, (Textron), Lockheed Martin, and several others. We deal in these type of metal treatment processes all the time, every day. Before that I worked for over 30 years in the die cast and plastic injection molding industry. Again these type of metal treatments were commonplace. They were being put on mold casting surfaces and turbine engine components long before anyone ever thought of using them on guns. There are several process we cannot have applied within our borders, and are required to use outside foreign sources. This is becoming more and more commonplace as the EPA, along with OSHA keep tightening the requirements of these processes, along with the chemicals they contain, along with how they are handled and disposed of. In many cases the EPA doesn't need to ban them simply because they are no longer cost effective to offer because of EPA regulations. Try to open up a die casting plant in this country. You'll go broke before you cast a part because of stringent, overly expensive regulation that will be imposed by government regulators in this country. It could not even be done in the state of California at any price.
And lastly, (thank God), concerning the "superiority" of the Glock pistol. Everytime a product surfaces in the marketplace that takes over by storm because of revolutionary design and creativity, dozens of other manufacturers try to copy it. It has happened with everything from Mini Vans, (Chrysler), to 4-Stroke outboard motors, (Honda), to short, fat, Magnum rifle cartridges, (Winchester), and just about everything in between. Some get it right, some fail miserably, while some manage to carve out a big enough piece of the pie for themselves to scratch out some kind of living. All of these products will inevetably have their share of people who dump undeserving praise on them simply based on the fact they own them, and nothing else. I believe the term you like is "fanboys", or some such.
I'm not one of those people. I have heavily criticized Colt AR-15's, and I own 2 of them. I've even been kicked off forums by Colt "fanboys" because I refused to be part of their non stop circle jerks dumping undeserved praise on them. I own and shoot handguns from all of the major manufacturers. Colt, Sig Sauer, S&W, Glock, H&K, Springfield Armory, (1911's), Desert Eagle, Ruger, and many more I can't think of at the moment. There are pictures plastered on many of these forums you've been sniffing around that I'm sure you've seen. With that said I'm not saying, or have ever said, the Springfield XD was a "bad" pistol. It is not. Not when it was the HS-2000, or Springfields latest overpriced creation, the $650.00 XDM. What it basically is, and always has been is a very profitable copy. That is good for Springfield, the economy, and people who buy it.
What it is not is a superior Polymer pistol. It is very rare a gun design really gets it right the first time out of the box. So much so it's almost impossible to find a new make and model that doesn't undergo at least one recall today. The last time this has happened that I can remember was the Glock. Before that the 1911, and perhaps the Browning, (Remington), Auto V shotgun. Start to finish all were produced the same, simply because except for cosmetics, there was never any need to change their basic design. The Springfield XD, and several others do not fit into this category. People still prefer them, own them, and shoot them. There is nothing wrong with that. Just don't try and tell me a design is "better" that didn't even exist until the original they are trying to compete with by copy, already had a firm grip on the market. Hell, I've had S&W Sigma owners argue with me that was a superior design to the Glock when it came out, and we all know where that gun ended up. If a shooter feels the Springfield XD is "better" for him because he prefers it's ergonomics, or it's "feel". Or else how it points and shoots, or else looks, then that is the gun he or she should buy. Just please spare me the nonsense that it is "better" because you prefer it. I shoot 6 Glocks. I do so because of it's design. It still is waiting to be equaled, let alone surpassed after over 25 years. Tell that to the guys who stood in line to pay $14,000.00 for 42" Plasma TV's when they first came out 10 years ago, or for that matter the latest owner of a $650.00 Springfield XDM. I'm quite sure you'll get an argument from both. Bill T.
Seems no matter where these posting go, there you are trying to push Glock as the only good manufacturer on the market. Could so many people be wrong? I bet the vehicle you drive is the only vehicle anyone should drive and it will pass the torture test.
billt
12-14-2010, 09:32 AM
Seems no matter where these posting go, there you are trying to push Glock as the only good manufacturer on the market.
That is not what I said, anywhere. There are several "good" manufacturers of handguns. I myself own many of them. But that changes nothing in regards as to the success of the Glock pistol, or the reasons it has achieved such, or been copied so much. Bill T.
That is not what I said, anywhere. There are several "good" manufacturers of handguns. I myself own many of them. But that changes nothing in regards as to the success of the Glock pistol, or the reasons it has achieved such, or been copied so much. Bill T.
OK, as long as we are on the same page. As I stated before Glock was designed for idiots, it is idiot proof, well almost. Just don't add a Streamlight TLR to the .40 cal.
anthony20031
12-14-2010, 12:27 PM
Screw the Glock and XD......Ruger SR9 FTW LOL
JaxChris
12-14-2010, 09:45 PM
Screw the Glock and XD......Ruger SR9 FTW LOL
Been waiting for that one.
Secpro
12-15-2010, 07:22 AM
So we've come to the conclusion that Glock rules and all other pistols suck!
anthony20031
12-15-2010, 09:42 AM
Been waiting for that one.
Yh sorry was a little late lol
RCSRT8
12-15-2010, 01:16 PM
LMAO! This shit has been getting old, but I'm still fucking laughing.
And it seems Billt, you just like all the drama and attention.
But it also seems you've had this argument over and over.
Wouldn't it have just been easier to say that you prefer Glocks and be done with it.
Instead of posting the same info over and over on numerous forums.
But then again, maybe that's your only source of entertainment.
2228
billt
12-15-2010, 01:48 PM
LMAO! This shit has been getting old, but I'm still fucking laughing.
And it seems Billt, you just like all the drama and attention.
But it also seems you've had this argument over and over.
Wouldn't it have just been easier to say that you prefer Glocks and be done with it.
Instead of posting the same info over and over on numerous forums.
But then again, maybe that's your only source of entertainment.
2228
You seem to know everywhere I go along with everything I say. It appears to me I'm not the one needing entertainment here is it? I enjoy a fan club. Thanks for heading up mine! All the best, Bill T.
Secpro
12-15-2010, 03:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBdYBc0BLgQ&feature=player_embedded
M@D-M@X
12-15-2010, 03:44 PM
LMAO! This shit has been getting old, but I'm still fucking laughing.
And it seems Billt, you just like all the drama and attention.
But it also seems you've had this argument over and over.
Wouldn't it have just been easier to say that you prefer Glocks and be done with it.
Instead of posting the same info over and over on numerous forums.
But then again, maybe that's your only source of entertainment.
http://tacticaladv.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2228&d=1292436766
You asked and shall receive....
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f317/craneoc76/cowbell.gif