deeper penetration

[GT03235]

what round has more chance to blow through the body and come out the other side?
9mm
40
45??????????????:slapshoot:

[spikes40]

my guess would be .40 as it hits with the most foot pounds

[lino]

originally I thought this was a basement thread... LOL


http://tacticaladv.com/showthread.php?t=1620

looks like 180gr .40 from this test

[anthony20031]

I thought it was 9mm becuase it was hotter and it is smaller which to me means smaller chance hitting bone or something and staying in the body...don't know though

[anthony20031]

yh those are hollow points...I was thinking in terms of FMJ...that 9mm 147 grain is right there too

[lino]

that 9mm 147 grain is right there too

yep.. pretty close to exact..

this pic still looks like a bunch of vaginas to me... LOL :bolt:

[Secpro]

Here I thought this was going to be a basement thread!

[Dan]

yep.. pretty close to exact..

this pic still looks like a bunch of vaginas to me... LOL :bolt:


Everything looks like vaginas to you post whore

[Satan_3pc]

Well if this question can be answered with an innuendo, I'd say the longer rounds get more penetration. ;)

[JaxChris]

You forgot to put 10mm in this test. It would trump them all.

Also remember, the fastest round in each caliber is also the lightest bullet. The amount of retained weight decreases as the grain of the bullet decreases, and the velocity increase does not compensate for this loss at a 1:1 level, it's actually a good deal less.

It's like asking "if I was t-boned by a GXR doing 140 or a Corvette doing 70, which will do the most damage to my car". Well the GXR doesn't have enough retained weight behind it so it will shred itself more than its target. The Corvette will do significantly more damage because of the higher caliber, higher grain... even at lower velocity.

[Satan_3pc]

Well a Corvette still weighs nothing and is made of mostly fiber glass, but it will definitely do a lot of damage. There was a moron around my area that cut a SUV in half with a street bike. They all died. So, yes, it really all depends on a velocity to momentum ratio. Or how much weight is traveling at what speed.

[ProfessorStoneFace]

it's a pretty interesting question. one thing to remember is that ballistics gel isn't a perfect analog for a human target. a bullet will travel travel about 4 inches into ballistics gel before it would have even pierced the skin of a human target. skin is very elastic and absorbs some of the velocity. I read that the FBI doesn't even consider a round for field use if it doesn't penetrate at least 12 inches into ballistics gel. between the resistance of the skin and unless your shooting a naked guy there's layers of clothes to worry about too, you need that penetration.

obviously for defense use we're talking about hollow point rounds which transfer their energy to the target to keep from just going through the target. an interesting thing which I learned from mythbusters was that the higher the velocity the more the bullet fragments on impact.

they had an episode where they were shooting into water to see how far the bullets would travel, like in the movies. they started with slow rounds like 9mm and 45 then moved up through the various pistol rounds. each one traveled several feet before slowing down to a non lethal level, then they were able to recover the bullets whole. after seeing that I expected the bullets to travel even further once they stepped up to non hollow point rifle rounds. what happened was the exact opposite, the bullets would fragment into lots of little pieces within the first 1-2 feet. they shot several rifle rounds all the way up to a barrett .50 and even that traveled barely a foot or two. all they found of the rifle rounds were smaller fragmented pieces even with ball ammo

now human targets don't 100% act the same as what was happening when they shot into the pool but it was pretty interesting what a very high velocity round would do when it hit water vs a slower round. a friend of mine who's LE said they went on a raid and had to shoot a suspect at point blank range with an AR15 and none of the 5 rounds went through the suspect, all 5 rounds stayed in. I'm sure they used hollow point rounds but at the same time there had to be some of the same effect that they found on mythbusters keeping the rounds from going all the way through.

[GT03235]

i saw that episode it was unbelievable to see a 50 cal penertrate the water less than the smaller calibers

[JaxChris]

The 5.56x45 & 7.62x39 are designed to wound, not to kill. If you want a round designed to kill, you pretty much only have 50 caliber. Nothing else available in modern rifles will do enough damage from a single shot, regardless of POI, other than 50 caliber. Maybe this is why small arms are limited to 50 caliber. Even with a 7.62x51 requires good shot placement in order to be a one-shot, one-kill.

[highdesert45]

I had my FFL tell me that the FN 5.7 mm rounds were pretty nasty at cutting through body armor at close range. I have never fired this round, nor witnessed it performing as such. My cousin's husband (Special Forces) told me that .45s regularly blasted through body armor as well.

[JaxChris]

The 5.7mm is just a sharp round. It has the ability to punch through Kevlar helmets and light body armor if you find the old SS190 laying around before FN voluntarily stopped importing that model. Now they no longer offer steel core and most of the models of ammo are lead-free.

The 5.7mm SS190 was the inspiration for the H&K 4.6mm round and combining that ability in an even smaller bullet with the weapon design hybrid between the TP9 and the MP5 gave creation to the H&K MP7A1.

If you want ammo for the Five-Seven, get SS195 or SS197 as your range ammo and try to find some old "well kept" SS190 as your home defense round.

[M@D-M@X]

i saw that episode it was unbelievable to see a 50 cal penertrate the water less than the smaller calibers

Yeah I saw it too....

From what I understood. The jacketed handgun ammo had more penetration in the water due to it's slower speed.
The .50 BMG, 30-06, .223 & .308 used are hyper velocity ammunition. Their jackets cannot withstand the pressures involved with the inpact of the water, thus shredding into pieces.

One ammunition that they did not use was the .408 Chey Tac factory ammunition which uses solid projectiles or bullets rather than jacketed lead-core bullets, which are common to most other rifle bullets. These bullets are turned on Swiss-type CNC lathes from solid bars of proprietary copper nickel alloy. I think it would be really interesting on how these bullet would handle these pressures.