View Full Version : HS2000 ( the begining of XD)
HS2000 pistol has been developed by Croatian IM Metal company for Croatian army during late 1990s. Production of the 9mm HS2000 started in 1999, with the first pistols being delivered to the Croatian army the same year. In 2000 these pistols first appeared in the USA, initially imported under their original name. However, in late 2001 the Springfield Armory Company of Genseo, Illinois, became the sole importer of HS2000 pistols in USA. Springfield offers a slightly improved version of HS2000 as the Springfield XD (eXtreme Duty pistol), and by now these pistols (still made in Croatia) are available in a variety of sizes, calibers and finishes.
After several years of aggressive sales, these pistols gained good reputation and serious following among American shooters, and by now several police departments in USA either issue these pistols on regular basis or approve them for personal purchase by police officers.
note the missing accessory rail..
Satan_3pc
03-09-2010, 11:22 AM
Duh.
anthony20031
03-09-2010, 11:56 AM
yh I commented on this before in another thread. Not positive but I am pretty sure that Springfield doesn't do any of their own designs. They have just purchased rights to other designs and then made small changes and slapped their name on them :)
JaxChris
03-09-2010, 12:00 PM
Springfield comes up with new model ideas and sends those to IM. This is how the XDm series came to be, along with the XD45 Compact.
Springfield receives the pistols disassembled and (if I remember correctly) unstamped. Springfield stamps them with a serial number, assembles them, test fires them, and then sells them. I could be wrong on this part though.
Secpro
03-09-2010, 12:04 PM
The HS2000 wasn't that bad, but it felt like shit in my hands. I thought the grip was funky at it just didn't feel right!
JaxChris
03-09-2010, 12:09 PM
The angles of the grip are unchanged SecPro. The only thing they did differently in that regard for the XD was they changed the feel of the polymer by modifying the texture applied to the outside.
Secpro
03-09-2010, 12:13 PM
The angles of the grip are unchanged SecPro. The only thing they did differently in that regard for the XD was they changed the feel of the polymer by modifying the texture applied to the outside.
I like that better! A friend bought one and I played with and didn't like it. It just felt weird, then you must also consider my bear paws also
anthony20031
03-09-2010, 12:20 PM
Yh but they did not come up with the design. All they did was tweak it by adding a few additional lines with new barrel lengths and calibers etc etc etc. Essentially what they did is take an existing firearm, pretty it up and remarket it.:
"The XD traces its roots back to a service pistol known as the PHP (Prvi Hrvatski Pištolj or First Croatian Pistol), which was first produced in Croatia by privately owned industrial parts firm I. M. Metal in 1991.[2] Designed by a team led by Marko Vuković, the PHP was considered to be a solid design, but early versions were plagued by quality issues, due in large part to the difficulties of manufacturing during the Croatian War of Independence.[3] Vuković's team continued to tweak and improve the design over the next decade, releasing the HS95 (Hrvatski Samokres or Croatian Pistol) in 1995, and the HS2000 in 1999.
The HS2000 was adopted by the Croatian military and law enforcement as a standard issue sidearm and continues to fill that role today.[citation needed] The pistol was initially exported to the US market by Intrac and distributed by HSAmerica who sold the pistol in 9 mm as the HS2000.[4]
In 2002, Springfield Armory, Inc. negotiated licensing rights to the US market, and changed the name to the XD-9 (X-treme Duty 9x19mm). Springfield Armory has since expanded the line to include seven models in three different calibers and five different cartridges, four barrel lengths, and four finishes (black, bi-tone, olive drab frame, and the newest dark earth frame). The industry press awarded the XD-45 the title of Handgun of the Year from both American Rifleman magazine and the The Shooting Industry Academy of Excellence.[5] The XDM series of pistols won Handgun of the Year again in 2009.[6]"
Secpro
03-09-2010, 12:29 PM
So regardless of who was the first manufactor of the HS2000 or whatever, Springfield took the product and advanced it as well as adding to it's capabilities and design.
End of the day it's still a great pistol and hopefully continues to function well and withstand the abuse that we place on it.
anthony20031
03-09-2010, 12:46 PM
So regardless of who was the first manufactor of the HS2000 or whatever, Springfield took the product and advanced it as well as adding to it's capabilities and design.
End of the day it's still a great pistol and hopefully continues to function well and withstand the abuse that we place on it.
See I don't think all that highly of it. It's a good pistol but for me it just doesn't do it. People may laugh but my SR9 I believe handles better and I personally have much better groupings with the SR9. People talk about the trigger etc and yes on my Ruger it is a little rough but I feel like I get better "feel" out of my trigger than the XD. With that said I do want to get some work done on it (any takers? lol) But that is all also personal preference. I also wouldn't say Springfield advanced it, not to be an ass lol. Adding rails, some stipling and adding calibers etc is not really advancing it, just opening it to a wider market etc. They are a great marketing company and customer service company. I would give credit to the company that actually built the pistol and put their hard earned money and time into the development into it. Just my cynical 0.02
anthony20031
03-09-2010, 12:48 PM
So regardless of who was the first manufactor of the HS2000 or whatever, Springfield took the product and advanced it as well as adding to it's capabilities and design.
End of the day it's still a great pistol and hopefully continues to function well and withstand the abuse that we place on it.
Springfield is still not the manufacturer for it. Still the same manufacturer, they just pay them for the rights to distribute in the US I believe. They've requested adjustments, add calibers etc.
Secpro
03-09-2010, 12:51 PM
See I don't think all that highly of it. It's a good pistol but for me it just doesn't do it. People may laugh but my SR9 I believe handles better and I personally have much better groupings with the SR9. People talk about the trigger etc and yes on my Ruger it is a little rough but I feel like I get better "feel" out of my trigger than the XD. With that said I do want to get some work done on it (any takers? lol) But that is all also personal preference. I also wouldn't say Springfield advanced it, not to be an ass lol. Adding rails, some stipling and adding calibers etc is not really advancing it, just opening it to a wider market etc. They are a great marketing company and customer service company. I would give credit to the company that actually built the pistol and put their hard earned money and time into the development into it. Just my cynical 0.02
Whatever!:raspberry:
It's all preference at the end of the day. I've shot Glocks and like them to an extent. I've shot Sigs and like them too. Shit If I could afford I'd own a shit load of Sigs and HKs with Glock an XD as my fun guns, but at the end of the day it comes down to what your pockets could afford and what feels good in your hand. Bitch!:nutkick:
anthony20031
03-09-2010, 12:55 PM
Whatever, marketing advancement!:raspberry:
It's all preference at the end of the day. I've shot Glocks and like them to an extent. I've shot Sigs and like them too. Shit If I could afford I'd own a shit load of Sigs and HKs with Glock an XD as my fun guns, but at the end of the day it comes down to what your pockets could afford and what feels good in your hand. Bitch!:nutkick:
LOL...yh trust me I tried a lot of pistols and the top three that I felt comfortable in my hand and was accurate was with a 1911 (forget which company, but wanted polymer anyways so held off on that for the moment hopefully will come soon lol), the SR9 and there was a Sig (maybe a 226?) that I tried that had the emblem of the SEALS on it. Now that Sig literally molded to my damn hands. I was in love with it, but at the time there was no justifying to my wife a $900 pistol lol.
I've played with the XD and shot it, as well as the Glock (didn't get to shoot it) and didn't really like either of them that much. I would take the XD over the Glock though. Glock felt like a damn toy to be honest and was kinda bulky. SR9 fit my needs in that it has capacity, good at the range (being a 9mm, with shooting costs and being my first pistol I didn't want to go to a .45 or something just yet) and I can conceal carry it because it is pretty freakin thin. :) People knock the SR9 and while it has it's quirks I think is a hell of a pistol. Only complaint is that it's trigger is a little rough but with some work I think it would be a great trigger...but then again I'm no gunsmith in any way shape or form. I do want to bring it to Guntech for them to do it for me though. I do have next week off so I was planning on stopping by
Secpro
03-09-2010, 12:58 PM
LOL...yh trust me I tried a lot of pistols and the top three that I felt comfortable in my hand and was accurate was with a 1911 (forget which company, but wanted polymer anyways so held off on that for the moment hopefully will come soon lol), the SR9 and there was a Sig (maybe a 226?) that I tried that had the emblem of the SEALS on it. Now that Sig literally molded to my damn hands. I was in love with it, but at the time there was no justifying to my wife a $900 pistol lol.
Oh how do I know the sound of that! 1911s are the shit also.
anthony20031
03-09-2010, 01:02 PM
I think it really does come down to personally opinion and how something feels in your hands though.
JaxChris
03-09-2010, 01:20 PM
Did you try out a USP 45 Compact Tactical? Those are a dream to handle and shoot as well.
anthony20031
03-09-2010, 01:43 PM
No don't think I tried that one
Satan_3pc
03-09-2010, 08:47 PM
How many 1911s, Rugers, or even H&Ks can do this!
http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory11.php
Chris
03-09-2010, 09:12 PM
lots
Satan_3pc
03-09-2010, 09:38 PM
I've never seen a torture test like this on anything other than a glock and an XD
Secpro
03-10-2010, 07:33 AM
I've never seen a torture test like this on anything other than a glock and an XD
In order for HK to be accepted by the SEALs you best believe they went through a torture test.
As for 1911s they've been there and done that, but I'm not sure about Rugers. Chris obviously is though!
No matter which way you look at it, Springfield puts out a good gun. As far as making it their own. Take a look at a Toyota and Lexus, which would you rather drive?
It was not until Springfield took it their brand that it became a hit with the market. Marketing a weapon is key and obviously Springfield knows how to do this. Reliable as any other weapon out there even as much as a Glock (with a better trigger of course).
Secpro
03-10-2010, 09:19 AM
No matter which way you look at it, Springfield puts out a good gun. As far as making it their own. Take a look at a Toyota and Lexus, which would you rather drive?
It was not until Springfield took it their brand that it became a hit with the market. Marketing a weapon is key and obviously Springfield knows how to do this. Reliable as any other weapon out there even as much as a Glock (with a better trigger of course).
OMG... I think he hinted at liking a Glock!:hide:
Cris would own a Glock if it had a cool serial number (like mine)
anthony20031
03-10-2010, 09:48 AM
No matter which way you look at it, Springfield puts out a good gun. As far as making it their own. Take a look at a Toyota and Lexus, which would you rather drive?
It was not until Springfield took it their brand that it became a hit with the market. Marketing a weapon is key and obviously Springfield knows how to do this. Reliable as any other weapon out there even as much as a Glock (with a better trigger of course).
I just don't consider it Springfield's gun. That gun was built and designed by another company. They just have sole rights to sell it and market it in the US. Just having the manufacturer company (the true owner) offer it in more calibers for you to sell, as well as adding some small features so that it can compete with other pistols in the market, to me, does not make it Springfield's gun. It's like me talking to an overseas manufacturer of a say a car that is offered in Europe but not here and asking for exclusive rights to sell and market here in the US and them allowing me to put my name on it becuase I have a highly valuable name in the American market. The product bears my name but it is not really my car.
It was a great idea by both the company that built the gun and also Springfield. They found a gun that was extremely reliable and well built etc and so Springfield gets a great product that they did not have to waste time and money on developing (just some small adjustments so that it would be more marketable here) and the actual developer and designer of the gun gets a huge sales boost as they have a solid company selling their gun (I mean people will be skeptical, at first, about buying a new gun made by a company they don't know until after a while it builds a reputation. By doing what they did by giving the rights to Springfield, they skipped having to build a reputation in the states) and they don't have to deal with any bullshit with America laws etc as that will be dealt with by Springfield.
BTW, I completely agree with Anthony. I do like to come on here and jab the XD from time to time if anyones noticed :D, but really when I am talking to a person interested in buying a reliable gun, the XD is always in that conversation. I think if Springfield wasn't standing behind the XD, it would just be to me along the lines of a Tanfoglio or CZ based gun, a great design from the eastern bloc and if well built a great shooter, but with no real backing of a good company willing to support parts, warranty, and marketing that keeps the accessory market alive for that particular gun.
I'll let you shoot my .40 service model anthony.. Im sure you will like it.. I also wanna try your Ruger to see for myself..
anthony20031
03-10-2010, 10:23 AM
Your more than welcome to shoot my SR9. I have shot a XD 9mm. I have just found that the Ruger fits me better and I happen to be more accurate with it and I can CC with it. Seems the XD full size while possible, would be tough to CC especially on my smaller frame lol. Not that it's a bad gun or anything.
Like your saying Phil, to me yes it's a good gun maybe just not for me though (or maybe I just haven't had enough play time with it lol). But my bigger deal is all the props that Springfield gets for it. I think it's funny because it's not their gun. They didn't design, they didn't build it etc. All they did was put their name behind it which instantly gave it recognition which like I said was a great play by both the maker and Springfield. It ended up a win win for both companies. From what I see, Springfield is not a gun maker. They are more a gunsmith and a marketing company, at least in my eyes. With this all said it doesn't mean I wouldn't buy a gun from them in future becuase of this, just saying that I think it's funny they get all these accolades for something they didn't come up with lol
Secpro
03-10-2010, 10:27 AM
I let you shoot my .40 service model anthony.. Im sure you will like it.. I also wanna try your Ruger to see for myself..
I got a .40 compact you can try also.
Chris
03-10-2010, 07:51 PM
Your more than welcome to shoot my SR9. I have shot a XD 9mm. I have just found that the Ruger fits me better and I happen to be more accurate with it and I can CC with it. Seems the XD full size while possible, would be tough to CC especially on my smaller frame lol. Not that it's a bad gun or anything.
Like your saying Phil, to me yes it's a good gun maybe just not for me though (or maybe I just haven't had enough play time with it lol). But my bigger deal is all the props that Springfield gets for it. I think it's funny because it's not their gun. They didn't design, they didn't build it etc. All they did was put their name behind it which instantly gave it recognition which like I said was a great play by both the maker and Springfield. It ended up a win win for both companies. From what I see, Springfield is not a gun maker. They are more a gunsmith and a marketing company, at least in my eyes. With this all said it doesn't mean I wouldn't buy a gun from them in future becuase of this, just saying that I think it's funny they get all these accolades for something they didn't come up with lol
Wow, this statement actually bothered me
I rarely choose sides on guns because I love guns in general, from 30 dollar hunks of crap to multi-thousand dollar works of art. IMHO if you like it and it works for you more power to you.
BUUUUT, to say SA is not a gun maker is grossly wrong. They have been manufacturing, designing and supporting some of the best guns out there longer than any member of this forum has been alive. To dislike the XD or where its made is great. If you dont like it.....dont buy one, free market but degrading the entire company is ludacris. They manufacter some of the finest rifles ever, yes I said ever made. There are complete shooting sports designed solely on their products. Millions of other guns have rolled of their assembly lines to happy customers.
Lastly what was hinted on by Phil is that the SR9, the LCP, the LCR and many other ruger guns much like springfileds or any other manufacteres guns are direct rip offs of other designs. They make look different but I gaurantee you once taken apart and analyzed for what they are design wise they are nearly all the same. Be that SA, DA, striker fired etc. etc.
Another argument on this would be AR15's. Well Rock River buys stock, lowers from other manufacturers so they arent a gun maker either, they also didnt design it so crap, they are thieves as well. Actually all of them are. I hope you see the point Im trying to make with that.
For me it lies in 2 areas, Quality Control and Brand Assurance.
SAXD's from what I understand and I have ran many a round through their guns the QC is superb. I have NEVER be aware of a recall on the XD series of pistols which I can name many many other models from nearly every manufacturer has.
Long story short. dont like the XD's.......awesome. Dont like Glocks....awesome.....but give credit where it is due, they are great reliable affordable guns which I would own any of them and bet my life on it.
Simple
whew......
Just my 2 cents though.
anthony20031
03-10-2010, 09:28 PM
Wow, this statement actually bothered me
I rarely choose sides on guns because I love guns in general, from 30 dollar hunks of crap to multi-thousand dollar works of art. IMHO if you like it and it works for you more power to you.
BUUUUT, to say SA is not a gun maker is grossly wrong. They have been manufacturing, designing and supporting some of the best guns out there longer than any member of this forum has been alive. To dislike the XD or where its made is great. If you dont like it.....dont buy one, free market but degrading the entire company is ludacris. They manufacter some of the finest rifles ever, yes I said ever made. There are complete shooting sports designed solely on their products. Millions of other guns have rolled of their assembly lines to happy customers.
Lastly what was hinted on by Phil is that the SR9, the LCP, the LCR and many other ruger guns much like springfileds or any other manufacteres guns are direct rip offs of other designs. They make look different but I gaurantee you once taken apart and analyzed for what they are design wise they are nearly all the same. Be that SA, DA, striker fired etc. etc.
Another argument on this would be AR15's. Well Rock River buys stock, lowers from other manufacturers so they arent a gun maker either, they also didnt design it so crap, they are thieves as well. Actually all of them are. I hope you see the point Im trying to make with that.
For me it lies in 2 areas, Quality Control and Brand Assurance.
SAXD's from what I understand and I have ran many a round through their guns the QC is superb. I have NEVER be aware of a recall on the XD series of pistols which I can name many many other models from nearly every manufacturer has.
Long story short. dont like the XD's.......awesome. Dont like Glocks....awesome.....but give credit where it is due, they are great reliable affordable guns which I would own any of them and bet my life on it.
Simple
whew......
Just my 2 cents though.
I think you misunderstand what I have typed. I stated a couple times that the gun was a good gun. I don't believe I stated that it wasn't. I stated that it was not for me. Basically what I was getting at is that the XD is not Springfield's gun in the sense they do not build it. They hold the LICENSE to sell and market the XD in the US. At least that is what my understanding is. In that sense I would give the maker, which is based in Croatia, more of the credit than Springfield. I also stated that Springfield is a hell of a company but they did not design the gun nor did they manufacturer it or make it. Again to my understanding from what I have read. This was a thread referencing the XD and HS2000, not any other gun. You reference the SR9, and in that sense Ruger took a lot of things from the Glock, XD etc but they also added other things such as reducing the overall size etc. Glock deserves a shit load of credit for their innovation in polymer pistols (doesn't mean I like them), Stoner and Colt in ARs etc. Again great company and great gun (QC, customer service etc) but Springfield (with the XD) has this cult following, deserve credit yes, but think people need to give some of that to company that designed and build it.
But I would consider myself a newb in this area so what the hell do I know LOL just my opinion.
anthony20031
03-10-2010, 09:30 PM
Just disregard everything I say LOL
Edit: Just revealing my jealousy lololol
Satan_3pc
03-10-2010, 10:31 PM
Well, just for the record.... Springfield did manufacture a few of our military's best served rifles. So they are definitely a gun maker worthy of my salute. For they served in wars I support. Wars that made our country what it is today(The good parts at least). In fact the history on Springfield is actually pretty cool.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_Armory
anthony20031
03-10-2010, 10:44 PM
Well, just for the record.... Springfield did manufacture a few of our military's best served rifles. So they are definitely a gun maker worthy of my salute. For they served in wars I support. Wars that made our country what it is today(The good parts at least). In fact the history on Springfield is actually pretty cool.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_Armory
Yes you are right on that. I was more meaning to refer exclusively to the XD. I don't fault them on what they did with the XD. They did make some nice rifles and I would love to have some of them :) Also company began not far from my house growing up lol
I don't know maybe I'm just off my rocker lololol. Again I don't argue that it's not a good gun. In my final list before purchasing my SR9 the XD was one of the few (2-3) that I narrowed my choice down to. Later I shot my buddies and for some reason I just was not very accurate with it but maybe it was the sites, how I was handling it etc. I don't know. I wouldn't hesitate to carry it though and trust my life on it from what I hear and read :). You never know, maybe down the road it may find it's way into my safe :) Would love to shoot one of them from an owner on it
Satan_3pc
03-10-2010, 10:58 PM
I wasn't accurate with the Glock. Hated it.
anthony20031
03-10-2010, 11:01 PM
I wasn't accurate with the Glock. Hated it.
Yh I handled one and just didn't like it. Just felt like a toy. Grip was alright but just couldn't get one. You know when you handle something and it just doesn't feel right? That's what happened with me and the Glock. Plus unlike some others I actually like having a manual safety:hunter:
Satan_3pc
03-10-2010, 11:05 PM
Safety doesn't bother me. I am one of the believers in trigger discipline being enough safety for me to sleep well at night. I thought the Glock felt nice when I handled it at a gun shop. When a guy let me shoot his at the range, suddenly it didn't feel so good. I didn't like the trigger. The grip, to me, felt thin but deep in comparison to my XDm, and I have the large back strap on.
anthony20031
03-11-2010, 09:40 AM
Yh I have to start looking at getting another pistol as well. Only have one and sucks because I often have to leave it home so that when the wife is home alone she has something she feels comfortable to protect herself.
OMG... I think he hinted at liking a Glock!:hide:
No I was stating out of the box XD's have a much better trigger than a Glock.
Cris would own a Glock if it had a cool serial number (like mine)
DAMN YOU PHIL!!! You took my double goose egg. Hell, even I can't pass up a good deal. When you get LE pricing on Glocks its hard to pass that up. I may not like Glock but I'm not an idiot.
By the way...I hate you all, I am going home. LOL!!
By the way...I hate you all, I am going home. LOL!!
you coming to the picnic?
Satan_3pc
03-11-2010, 04:36 PM
No I was stating out of the box XD's have a much better trigger than a Glock.
DAMN YOU PHIL!!! You took my double goose egg. Hell, even I can't pass up a good deal. When you get LE pricing on Glocks its hard to pass that up. I may not like Glock but I'm not an idiot.It wasn't just the trigger pull on the glock for me. I didn't like how wide and plastic the trigger was, and how thin the trigger safety was. It felt funny on my finger tip.
DAMN YOU PHIL!!! You took my double goose egg. Hell, even I can't pass up a good deal. When you get LE pricing on Glocks its hard to pass that up. I may not like Glock but I'm not an idiot.
lol, it's the only gun where I can actually sit here now and remember the S/N. Never has 3 letters and 3 numbers just roll off as easily as this one. :rich:
anthony20031
03-11-2010, 05:10 PM
lol, it's the only gun where I can actually sit here now and remember the S/N. Never has 3 letters and 3 numbers just roll off as easily as this one. :rich:
Now you have me here sitting what it could possible be lol
It ends in "00" the serial number I always try to find on guns I may get.
JaxChris
03-12-2010, 03:04 AM
Safety doesn't bother me.
That sentence scares me...
But you're still a bitch because you don't carry your XDm in Condition 1. Can't believe you don't have a round chambered. Please... believe in the grip/trigger safety combo and load a round. That extra second might be the difference in who lives or dies one day.
JaxChris
03-12-2010, 03:06 AM
I know the serial number on my XD and the woman's AR off the top of my head... and the last five of my VIN number. What's so hard about remembering serials? You getting old and forgetful Cris?
Satan_3pc
03-12-2010, 09:41 AM
I meant the safeties on the guns do not bother me. Meaning I don't need a switchable safety.
anthony20031
03-12-2010, 09:44 AM
I meant the safeties on the guns do not bother me. Meaning I don't need a switchable safety.
See I like it. It doesn't add any time to my draw or anything like having to rack the slide to chamber a round. As I draw my thumb just flicks the safety as I draw it from the holster. Gives me the extra comfort in having a round chambered :)