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View Full Version : Arizona Trying new immigration law under protest



Bib3773
04-24-2010, 03:04 PM
PHOENIX – Civil rights advocates vowed Saturday to challenge Arizona's tough new law targeting illegal immigration, saying it will lead to racial profiling of Hispanics despite the governor's assurance abuses won't be tolerated.

Republican Gov. Jan Brewer on Friday signed into law a bill that supporters said would take handcuffs off police in dealing with illegal immigration in Arizona, the nation's busiest gateway for human and drug smuggling from Mexico and home to an estimated 460,000 illegal immigrants.

The law requires police to question people about their immigration status — including asking for identification — if they suspect someone is in the country illegally. It's sparked fears among legal immigrants and U.S. citizens that they'll be hassled by police just because they look Hispanic.

Opponents of the law lingered at the state Capitol Saturday morning. Others gathered in Tucson outside the campaign headquarters of U.S. Rep. Raul Grijalva, a Democrat who this week called on businesses and groups looking for convention and meeting locations to boycott Arizona. Grijalva said his staff was flooded with phone calls this week, some from people threatening violent acts and shouting racial slurs.

The American Immigration Lawyers Association announced it would move its September conference from Scottsdale, Ariz., to another state.

Hundreds of protesters gathered outside the state Capitol Friday shouting that the bill would lead to civil rights abuses. But Brewer said critics were "overreacting."

"We in Arizona have been more than patient waiting for Washington to act," Brewer said after signing the law. "But decades of inaction and misguided policy have created a dangerous and unacceptable situation."





Earlier Friday, President Barack Obama called the Arizona bill "misguided" and instructed the Justice Department to examine it to see if it's legal. He also said the federal government must enact immigration reform at the national level — or leave the door open to "irresponsibility by others."

"That includes, for example, the recent efforts in Arizona, which threaten to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans, as well as the trust between police and their communities that is so crucial to keeping us safe," Obama said.





Current law in Arizona and most states doesn't require police to ask about the immigration status of those they encounter, and many police departments prohibit officers from inquiring out of fear immigrants won't cooperate in other investigations.

The new law makes it a crime under state law to be in the country illegally. Immigrants unable to produce documents showing they are allowed to be in the U.S. could be arrested, jailed for up to six months and fined $2,500.

It also allows lawsuits against government agencies that hinder enforcement of immigration laws and toughens restrictions on hiring illegal immigrants for day labor and knowingly transporting them.

The Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund said it plans a legal challenge to the law, which it said "launches Arizona into a spiral of pervasive fear, community distrust, increased crime and costly litigation, with nationwide repercussions."





William Sanchez, president of the National Coalition of Latino Clergy and Christian Leaders Legal Defense Fund, said his group is preparing a federal lawsuit against Arizona to stop the law from being applied. The group represents 30,000 Evangelical churches nationwide, including 300 Latino pastors in Arizona.

"Millions of Latinos around the country are shocked," Sanchez said.

Brewer ordered the state's law enforcement licensing agency to develop a training course on how to implement it without violating civil rights. The bill will take effect in late July or early August, depending on when the current legislative session ends.

"We must enforce the law evenly, and without regard to skin color, accent, or social status," she said. "We must prove the alarmists and the cynics wrong."

Many of the demonstrators at the Capitol complex booed when Maricopa County Supervisor Mary Rose Wilcox announced that "the governor did not listen to our prayers."

"It's going to change our lives," said Emilio Almodovar, a 13-year-old American citizen from Phoenix. "We can't walk to school any more. We can't be in the streets anymore without the pigs thinking we're illegal immigrants."

Mexico warned the proposal could affect cross-border relations, with Foreign Secretary Patricia Espinosa saying her country would have to "consider whether the cooperation agreements that have been developed with Arizona are viable and useful."

Francisco Loureiro, a pro-migrant activist who runs a migrant shelter in Nogales, Mexico, called the new law "racist" and said it would lead to more police abuse of migrants.

"Police in Arizona already treat migrants worse than animals," he said. "There is already a hunt for migrants and now it will be open season under the cover of a law."

Loureiro said about 250 deported migrants have been arriving at his shelter every night and that most tell him they were detained by police.

On Thursday, Mexico's Senate unanimously passed a resolution urging Brewer to veto the law.

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Associated Press Writers Paul Davenport, Julie Pace in Washington and Olga R. Rodriguez in Mexico City contributed to this report.

I don't really care what side of the immigration argument your on, the most distraught part of this IMO is that you can ask and beg for goverment help and they can or will ignore you, refuse to help, or give some lame excuse like Immigration reform should be a key issue and we will get back to you when we really give a fuck, however when you say enough and try to take some kind of action or initiative then the govermoent and Bobby Bin Laden will gladly tell you your wrong and then try to undermine the steps and efforts you are taking.

Arizona IMO has been a ground breaking state for a while now, from making its prisoners live in tents to actively fighting illegal immigration, and overall raising the bar when the majority are feeling more pity for the guilty than the victims. I have not read anything about the law other than the generalized overview here where they can ask for legal documentation, and to me I am ok with something so simple. Right or wrong and even if there is more to it, I hope Az refuses to back down and not only pushes forward, but continues to step up to the plate instead of riding the fence like most states and the goverment do on almost every issue.

Satan_3pc
04-24-2010, 05:09 PM
Only people that would protest stricter immigration laws are hippies and people taking taxless money back to their own country.

Government help is fucked up you know... I applied for financial aid for college, and because I'm 22, I have to file as dependent, and because I am from a middle class family that isn't helping me, I am not going to get it. But that is another topic all together. Moral of the story, I'd be better of coming from a poor family.

anthony20031
04-24-2010, 08:07 PM
Yh I don't understand the uproar over this. I really hope Arizona doesn't back down either

JaxChris
04-24-2010, 09:10 PM
I'm glad Arizona is taking steps to protect their state criminally and financially by passing laws to clean up all the problems they have with illegals.

The president should shut the fuck up by trying to twist this into a way to push his idea of reform. And "I'll have the Justice department see if it is legal" - blow me. Ask the Justice Department if it is legal for you to pass that health care reform. And let's ask them about weapon bans. Don't open that can of worms Obama... just because you already know you are only going to be a one-term president doesn't mean you can say "fuck America" and keep screwing with shit while you are still in office.

Satan_3pc
04-24-2010, 11:23 PM
I heard that the bill could allow sort of "random" checks on suspected "immigrants" though, and that I think is not fair. Under no circumstances should anyone in this country be stopped and asked for their papers or ID unless they were already stopped by LEO for breaking a law such as speeding etc.

I am not sure though what all the details are and what it would allow.

JaxChris
04-25-2010, 04:28 AM
I disagree with you. Loitering is a crime. People are not arrested for it, but cops still pull up on punk white kids on the corner and ask for ID. People never say that is profiling, and doing the same thing to Mexicans hanging out on the corner next to Home Depot is no different.

Anyone actually going about business shouldn't be bothered. But people standing around in suspicious places should be stopped and checked. That's like saying guys that walk around a bank without using the ATM or getting in line for a teller shouldn't be watched or asked if they need something by a bank worker or security guard (i.e. confronting them).

Violators of the law are caught mostly by their modus operandi and studying those patterns. Not acting on that information is like saying there shouldn't be police and we should let criminals walk themselves to jail on the honor system if they do something wrong.

There is nothing wrong with putting specific verbiage into the law regarding confronting those that follow suspicious patterns that coincide with the particular group of criminals they are trying to catch.

Satan_3pc
04-25-2010, 09:36 AM
Nah, I don't think so. I can not cling to a hate for immigrants that strongly. Everyone deserves some sort of freedom. Your examples are very specific, and we can do that all day long, but giving police the right to harass anyone is just as bad as locking up innocent Muslims because they are Muslim. Like I said, if they get pulled over for speeding, or get reported for violent behavior or something, and the cop is already investigating them anyways... deport them.

JaxChris
04-25-2010, 01:41 PM
But you must remember... legal citizens have rights. Illegals do not have any rights without taking an oath to the constitution. But hey... let's all turned a blind eye and we'll be speaking only Spanish and living off of free government burrito's between our 20 hour shifts at the local picking field or federal cafeteria in the future.

Satan_3pc
04-25-2010, 08:05 PM
Well don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of your points against illegals, but I just think the bill will end up causing legal immigrant problems. I'd get pissed if some cop started harassing me just because the way I look. I'd raise hell.

anthony20031
04-25-2010, 09:31 PM
Happens to me a lot. I ride a motorcycle and when I stop for gas and there is a cop nearby they nearly always come and check me out. Is that right? Nope but they still do it. And to be honest do I have a problem with it? Nope! Becuase someday maybe some asshat steals my bike and I would love a cop to find it. As long as the cop is respectful etc I have no problem with it ( and he doesn't hold me for an extended period of time). You know how much money can be saved by literally 2 minutes of checking a suspicious person? I'm willing to give 2 minutes of my time to be part of the solution if need be. Only people who don't want to have something to hide.

Satan_3pc
04-26-2010, 01:46 AM
Well I'm very stubborn and often fight to the death over principle lol.

ss1
04-26-2010, 11:03 AM
Arizona is also making concealed carry allowable to all AZ citizens who can legally carry without having to get a CWP.

JaxChris
04-26-2010, 06:18 PM
Arizona is also making concealed carry allowable to all AZ citizens who can legally carry without having to get a CWP.

Saw that... and that one is scary. I'm calling the NRA and complaining that they need to fight that bill and not sponsor it. People need to be signed off on that they know what they are doing and are intelligent enough to operate under that level of responsibility.

I'm all for IQ and psych eval's being required along with training before issuing CWP's. And I think anyone that has a CWP should be allowed to open-carry as a defense against accidental brandishing or printing so they have more comfortable carry options and don't have to worry about reaching up for something or someone seeing around the inside of their jacket.

ss1
04-26-2010, 06:23 PM
A part of me feels that way, but, the 2A isn't supposed to have an IQ caveat. Yeah, I know cc and 2A are arguably exclusive, but then there should be no restrictions on open carry. Sigh.... If they said citizens could only vote above a certain level of IQ, I think a part of me would support that too.

JaxChris
04-26-2010, 07:32 PM
A part of me feels that way, but, the 2A isn't supposed to have an IQ caveat. Yeah, I know cc and 2A are arguably exclusive, but then there should be no restrictions on open carry. Sigh.... If they said citizens could only vote above a certain level of IQ, I think a part of me would support that too.

Yep... now you're coming around C3PO. I'm all for freedom, but I am against idiots exercising freedoms that can do more harm than good in this country (that includes voting, owning a gun, getting pregnant, collecting welfare instead of getting a job, etc).

Satan_3pc
04-26-2010, 07:56 PM
Sigh.... If they said citizens could only vote above a certain level of IQ, I think a part of me would support that too. Yes! Yes! That would fix a lot of problems!

GK26
04-27-2010, 02:06 PM
http://blogs.trb.com/news/opinion/chanlowe/blog/nachos.gif

interesting enough, the pool in sunsentinel.com shows that most people in broward wants the same... kind of makes sense as the government is not taking any initiative on it, so the states have to make his own regulations:


Does Florida need a tough immigration law like Arizona's?

*

Yes. Illegal immigration is a huge problem in Florida, and the federal government is too wimpy to do anything about it. (3015 responses)

71%
*

No. Our problems aren't nearly as severe as Arizona's, which is having problem with Mexican gangs and drugs. (65 responses)

2%
*

Yes. You can't just sit back and do nothing and hope the problem goes away. It is jsut getting worse. (899 responses)

21%
*

No. Arizona's law will lead to racial profiling and just increase the anti-immigrant furor. It's counter-productive. (296 responses)

7%

4275 total responses

(Results not scientific)

anthony20031
04-27-2010, 03:16 PM
I agree with it. I have been mistaken a few times at restaurants etc as latin. I would have no problem being asked to produce something proving I am from here. Don't you need to have a birth certificate etc for a drivers license? Then that being the case you can't get a drivers license unless your a citizen. So run a check on a person's drivers license and if they don't have one or when checking with the computer the cops can normally rapidly check if your a citizen. If not your gone. This is becoming way to big of a problem. Just alone in Arizone they are estimating 140k illegal immigrants. Think of the jobs they take away, the healthcare costs they run up etc etc etc. Something seriously needs to be done. People are so weak these days. When I'm profiled becuase I ride a bike I have no issue showing my drivers license proving I am legally allowed to operate a bike. Takes 2 minutes, big deal.

JaxChris
04-27-2010, 04:47 PM
The US has no problem with a little harmless profiling in order to help clean itself up. But we won't go into genocide or invading all other countries to remove "the impurity"... so don't say this is a step towards Nazi America.

But I do think we need a nice big wall across the Mexican border that we can throw all the illegals back over after they are caught. Just let each state put some National Guard patrols along the border to prevent climbing over or digging under. Give us 2 years and the old American way of "get it done" and we'll be good to go.

anthony20031
04-27-2010, 05:00 PM
The US has no problem with a little harmless profiling in order to help clean itself up. But we won't go into genocide or invading all other countries to remove "the impurity"... so don't say this is a step towards Nazi America.

But I do think we need a nice big wall across the Mexican border that we can throw all the illegals back over after they are caught. Just let each state put some National Guard patrols along the border to prevent climbing over or digging under. Give us 2 years and the old American way of "get it done" and we'll be good to go.

Problem is I wonder if this will ever happen. The feds drag their feet and the liberals will find any excuse the block the building of that wall. Then of course once they catch the illegals the liberals will fight to let them stay and take stuff from a system that they have yet to pay into it. As long as the cops are profiling and asking for papers based upon looks then I have no problem. However if a crime is being committed I have no issue with the cop asking for papers. They cops should be able to use a drivers license to determine if they are a citizen

JaxChris
04-27-2010, 06:51 PM
They cops should be able to use a drivers license to determine if they are a citizen

That is part of the purpose of the RealID program, to provide a verified and simpler system for proving citizenship and status using existing programs (driver's license) already in use. I wouldn't mind a voluntary system of common enumeration for ID's that states can opt into or out of at their choice to provide even easier use of that information for law enforcement personnel. But I don't agree with it being a federal program that is mandatory for all states. That is why some states passed laws blocking the RealID effort because the fed can't require states to do it.

But anything to get people off of using Social Security Numbers as a universal identifier would be great. You'd have a new number with no personal worth or asset attached to it that could be abused or used fraudulently by criminals. Then force credit bureau's to move away from SSN's to protect the privacy of consumers information. Right now your SSN is what your past present and future are attached to. And it is the most common piece about you that every business, agency, or thief wants from you. With just that number you can spoof your way through the rest to ruin someone. It is too vulnerable of a system and to me is more important than health care reform or social security. Patch the body before you put a new coat of paint on it.

GK26
04-27-2010, 07:55 PM
i think cops should have something portable in their cars like fingerprint readers, similar to the ones used in the airports. in that way, they could really verify (at least with more certainty) that the people they are seeing in front is the one that matches the driver license or whatever paper is presented to them, granted that the police should be able to access the information online to verify this documents.

now, regarding to have rfid tags in the id.... i dont like that idea.... rfid is so easy to track that not only police but a lot of people could track you using rfid readers or stole your information without removing your wallet from your pocket...

Satan_3pc
04-27-2010, 09:23 PM
Just remember... with every new law or system that is suppose to "help" us, there is always an equally devious way of abusing it to fuck us.

JaxChris
04-27-2010, 10:36 PM
i think cops should have something portable in their cars like fingerprint readers, similar to the ones used in the airports. in that way, they could really verify (at least with more certainty) that the people they are seeing in front is the one that matches the driver license or whatever paper is presented to them, granted that the police should be able to access the information online to verify this documents.

now, regarding to have rfid tags in the id.... i dont like that idea.... rfid is so easy to track that not only police but a lot of people could track you using rfid readers or stole your information without removing your wallet from your pocket...

Only issue with fingerprints is that, just like DNA, any person can refuse to give such evidence without a signed warrant and an attorney present. In order to be issued a drivers license you must agree to keep it on your immediate person anytime you are away from your primary residence and must provide it on request to any law enforcement or state official. People seem to forget that part. So once you have a license you must always have it on you and failure to provide gives the cops means for detention. And there is a law that anyone residing in Florida that is 18 years old or over must get a State ID if they do not have a drivers license and the same rules for the State ID apply. Minors over 16 years old are also held accountable under this rule as well I think.

I'll have to look it all up again but don't have the time to dig while at work.

Duskydriver
05-03-2010, 10:51 AM
Do y'all self a favor and google the Mexican Constitution.
They are MoFo's when it comes to people trying to go North into Mexico. A mexican CITIZEN can legally detain you if they feel that you are in the country illegally. They wait for the Police to arrive, and if it is determined that you are there illegally, the can, and will kick your ass out of their country immediately! No due process, nothing. There is the airport, get the fuck out. mexico is very harsh when it comes to protecting their southern borders.

We are at the point where Phoenix, Arizona has the second highest kidnapping rates in North America. Kidnappings! Wanna guess who's #1? Mexico City!

This bill was voted on by the people of Arizona. This bill is nothing new! It simply gives the AZ LEO's authority to enforce laws already on the books. The only reason Libtards are yelling about this, is they need votes. They know they are in for an ass-whoopin come November. Ther are gonna stir the shit out of this in hopes it will turn the tide. If Chicago had 40,000 illegals from Romania, it wouldn't make it on TV!