View Full Version : Build or buy?
anthony20031
05-12-2009, 11:11 AM
Ok have always loved the AR but never got around to owning one since I just bought my first pistol. Well I was told by the lady that no more guns until we purchase our home. That happens to be getting closer and closer to reality so now I'm starting to consider how to go about it. I admit I know very little but was wondering what the best way to go right now is. Build one or just purchase one? Also if anyone wants to give me a hand and/or point me in the correct direction as to the lower and uppers that are the best or best value etc it would be appreciated. I am leaning towards building my own as the learning will be invaluable and plus I like to be more hands on.
I bought my first two and then built the rest of them. The ones out of the box received significant upgrades and it was then that I realized that I was spending more to buy one that I liked but still needed tweaking than it was to build from the ground up with exactly what I wanted. Or at least that was how I rationalized it. My biggest mistake was to buy lowers at $100 or less for the "rainy day" and not be truthful to myself that they would soon find lower parts kits and uppers, etc and turn into more AR's. I have one S&W lower that I haven't touched for a few months, but as soon as I see a 6.8 SPC bolt carrier group come available, I know I'm in trouble.
anthony20031
05-12-2009, 12:20 PM
Yh I'm really leaning towards building my own and trying to find where to start as what lower to purchase. Any suggestions? I almost purchased a lower from RR but held back. One reason because of the ultimatum from the wife lol and two because I don't wanna pay for something that there may be a good or better lower or just a better value elsewhere as I know very little about the weapon, hence being here to gain some knowledge lol. This will be my first AR so I'm not expecting to break the bank on it nor have it be the absolute end all of ARs.
ALERT!!!
New stripped lowers from Superior Arms for $89.95
See www.aimsurplus.com for details.
I just bought one.
anthony20031
05-12-2009, 01:44 PM
k now I'm preparing for same backlash with this but will this also allow me to fire the NATO round or just the .223?
Secpro
05-12-2009, 01:56 PM
k now I'm preparing for same backlash with this but will this also allow me to fire the NATO round or just the .223?
Yes sir you can. You can send 5.56 down range as well as .223 What makes it a NATO round is primer and casing, but other than that the round itself is about the same. 5.56 will be awckward to fit in a .223 mag though. May take a little tweaking, but you'll be good to go.
anthony20031
05-12-2009, 02:13 PM
it's just that I've heard that there is greater pressure in the NATO round that will cause issues in a rifle purpose built for a .223. However it is reversible in the sense that a rifle that is built to withstand the pressures of a NATO will then be able to deal with the lower pressures released by the .223. So in other words a rifle built for the NATO will feed both but a rifle built for the .223 will not safely fire the NATO
it's just that I've heard that there is greater pressure in the NATO round that will cause issues in a rifle purpose built for a .223. However it is reversible in the sense that a rifle that is built to withstand the pressures of a NATO will then be able to deal with the lower pressures released by the .223. So in other words a rifle built for the NATO will feed both but a rifle built for the .223 will not safely fire the NATO
I actually believe it is due to the size of the shell case not necessarily the pressure caused by the round. The lower I posted the link to can be used for .223 or 5.56.
Slowbra01
05-12-2009, 02:36 PM
its not so much the lower that determines whether it can be used with 223 or 556 but rather your upper....good god! now i need to get a receiver too! Stop posting this! You guys are making me spend ridiculous amounts of money! lol
In honesty, thanks for the all the heads up on all the deals!
but as soon as I see a 6.8 SPC bolt carrier group come available...
hmmm... 6.8... must resist... :bolt:
anthony20031
05-12-2009, 02:40 PM
yh the deals are awesome...just not sure if i should spend the money on it right now. keep myself to a strict budget and i don't have extra spending money til the end of the month and by then I'm sure they will all be scooped up. Really don't wanna pull money from what I have saved away. Next thing you know I'll have nothing saved away but a huge cache of weapons and ammo lol
Slowbra01
05-12-2009, 02:59 PM
It's just my suggestion but...you should jump on the receiver now at this price in the current market. You can built it slowly over time piece by piece. everything else you can have delivered to your house. This is the only part you need transferred. (correct me if im wrong)
anthony20031
05-12-2009, 03:03 PM
i think you are correct about that as well, the lower being the only part you need transferred.
Yeah it is correct, you need the lower transferred. If you are going to do that you might as well buy local. It may end up being the same after shipping and transfer fee.
As far as building I would do the builds myself just so I knew and understood the firearm more, seeing that it is an option you are able to do. Plus you can customize to exactly what you want from the beginning. Building also allows you to not have to drop one big nut at a time also. So you can spend a few hundred here and there. My last build only took me a few weeks, mostly because I was lucky with parts coming in and Phil sniping a stock for me as soon as it was shipped in.
anthony20031
05-13-2009, 08:10 AM
Chris then do you guys have any lowers and/or do you plan on getting any in soon? I would like to slowly start getting the parts now
anthony20031
05-13-2009, 08:11 AM
my problem is i don't know anyone who has lowers in stock...they seem to be flying out fast
I think we still have both Rock River and Smith & Wesson.
If I remember correctly Rock River is $175 and Smith & Wesson is $185. These are stripped lowers, the only serialized part of the rifle.
anthony20031
05-13-2009, 09:10 AM
So they have no trigger or anything then? Which would you suggest? The ones on AIM are only $85. Is it worth it to go with a RR or S&W. The price difference will be about $70
anthony20031
05-13-2009, 09:43 AM
I'm liking the Rock River...Maybe something I will purchase on Monday.
Guntech Tues-Friday 11am-7pm.
anthony20031
05-13-2009, 09:55 AM
Ah forget you guys aren't open on Monday's lol
Slowbra01
05-13-2009, 10:24 AM
Something Phil mentioned has been like a needle in my head and would only be helpful to pass it on to you as well. W/e you do, try to go Mil-spec. Honestly, i have no idea which parts of my RR build are mil-spec if any at all. I thought S&W was closer to mil-spec than RR. Please correct me if i'm wrong.
Sorry for the needle in the head thing. Sounds painful. Most of the forged lowers come from only a handful of foundries. They are then finsihed to the spec of the manufacturer, so for the most part, lowers are separated by mostly cosmetic differences. A quality LPK is good and infact I actually prefer the RRA LPK because it comes with their NM 2 stage trigger. It's not milspec so it is probably more susceptible to failure, but it's still a high functioning high quality trigger. The BCG and barrel are the real two things I would not cheap out on. Particle testing, etc aside, I have become a big believer in properly staked gas keys, as I have had a gas key work itself almost to the point of separation from the carrier. If that would have happened, I probably would have locked the gun up and damaged the upper and the bolt. Other than that, make sure you get a milspec lower extension tube (buffer tube) and not a commercial tube.
anthony20031
05-13-2009, 11:21 AM
Yh I was thinking I'll get the RR lower with the 2 stage trigger...hopefully when I get paid I can get the lower from Guntech. Last day compiling what parts I would like to use for the build.
Right now leaning towards an A4 upper and a surefire tactical rail. If anyone has any inputs by all means let me here them as well as this is my first time ever building a firearm so I'll take all the advice that can be gotten. Hopefully I wont make any rookie mistakes. Also need to a lot more research into the gun and system
JaxChris
05-13-2009, 02:50 PM
Also, please remember to make sure you get a 5.56mm barrel. Do not get a .223 barrel. A 5.56mm barrel can shoot both 5.56 and .223, while a .223 cannot shoot 5.56mm.
If you want to make sure you're also covered in the future (in case of any odd bans or you run into an extremely strict BATFE agent) you should make sure the lower you get says either 5.56 & .223 on it or says "Cal - Multi". Being marked Multi is best because then you can have interchangeable uppers of different calibers and know that you're completely covered - if you're the paranoid type.
RRA uses a Commercial buffer tube for their carbine/M4 stocks. So either a stripped RRA lower & parts kit or a semi-complete lower without extension/stock would be best.
I didn't want to wait for a rifle kit (everywhere is about 6 months now) so Cris hooked me up with a complete upper to make my build easier, as the hardest things to get right now are Barrel, Bolt, & Lower Parts Kit - in about that order.
For my first AR I'm doing a partial build by getting the complete upper and then I'll assemble my own lower. Reason for this is that I'm not competent enough to headspace a barrel myself (nor do I have the equipment/tools) and it will save me from paying gunsmith fees. Assembling a lower is pretty easy though, even for a first-timer.
As I find good deals on harder to get parts I'll post them up in here if you give me a list of what you're looking for. I'm currently spending a couple hours a day skimming multiple sites that have been getting frequent deliveries. Only problem is most new goods are gone within 1-2 hours of being posted on the company websites.
For stripped lowers I've found:
Del-Ton - 110$
DPMS - 120$
Stag - 120$
YHM - 135$
Spike - 150$
RRA - 170$
If you're locked in on the RRA, then go grab the one at GunTech. Tax & background will be cheaper than shipping, transfer, & background. Plus you'll be able to pick it up in 3 days instead of in a week (shipping & wait) if you don't have a CWP.
Currently DPMS part kits are the easiest to find jumping in and out of stock around the web. RRA LPK's are damn near impossible and all the ones they get in appear to be going right into their complete lowers and complete rifles.
RRA actually has 2 part kits - one with 2-stage match trigger and one with standard single-stage trigger. You can find RRA complete lowers with 2-stage trigger and CAR4 (commercial M4) stock for 395$. This works about the same as buying the stripped lower, 2-stage LPK, and CAR4 stock separately.
Hope some of this was helpful and if any of it is wrong then please listen to any of the senior guys here that correct me.
anthony20031
05-13-2009, 03:20 PM
Hey Jax that was a big help. I was hoping to build it from the ground up. I love to be hands on and it will allow me to learn more about it rather than buying it in one piece. Just hate how nothing is in stock right now. I may try and go purchase that RRA at Guntech on Tuesday when I get out of work. My plan was to go with the 2 stage trigger and I'm not in a terrible rush to get it although I really would like to get the lower just in case something happens with these damn politicians....figure it will take me about 2-4 months for the build especially considering the lack of availability
In South Florida, the waiting period is 5 days for pistols and long guns. Thank Miami-Dade for that jewel.
Slowbra01
05-13-2009, 03:34 PM
May i suggest, and i do believe most will agree with me, get the RRA 2stage rather than the 1stage. I assure you its the better of the two in terms of tactility (not to be confused with tactical-ity).
anthony20031
05-21-2009, 09:12 AM
Alright so I purchased the RRA lower from Guntech yesterday...so now will be trying to keep an eye out for the 2 stage trigger. Starting to consider buying a complete upper for some of the reasons that you commented on above. Trying to decide how I would like to continue
I didn't have a class last night so I only stopped in till about 6pm.
anthony20031
05-21-2009, 10:35 AM
I didn't have a class last night so I only stopped in till about 6pm.
Must have just missed you becuase I got there around 6:15
JaxChris
05-21-2009, 03:33 PM
Stripped lower? Next step should be looking for a lower parts kit while you take your time deciding what you want to do for an upper.
anthony20031
05-21-2009, 04:22 PM
yh I want to get the 2 stage trigger though no one seems to have them. Guntech said they have some on order...Cris can you let me know when you get them in? Hoping to buy that at the end of the month perhaps. I know I don't want a carry handle and would rather go with an A4 upper. Just wondering if it is more worth it just to go with a complete upper or continue to buy parts and take me time and assemble as I go. Going with just a complete upper will probably speed up the build but at the same time I may want to take my time with it and learn more as I go
JaxChris
05-21-2009, 07:42 PM
LoL... well I'm having a bitch of a time finding a proper RRA Complete Lower to match the RRA Complete Upper I just got from Cris.
If I don't find the lower for the price I want by the end of the week, I'll offer it to you for only what I paid for it so atleast one of us can start making use of it.
I wanted to go the same route as you and just get the complete halves for the first and then build the next, but I wanted matching brands for top and bottom. lol
anthony20031
05-21-2009, 08:57 PM
LoL... well I'm having a bitch of a time finding a proper RRA Complete Lower to match the RRA Complete Upper I just got from Cris.
If I don't find the lower for the price I want by the end of the week, I'll offer it to you for only what I paid for it so atleast one of us can start making use of it.
I wanted to go the same route as you and just get the complete halves for the first and then build the next, but I wanted matching brands for top and bottom. lol
Lol...what do you have for the upper? I'm on the same boat...I want to get matching brands lol
JaxChris
05-22-2009, 03:01 AM
What do I have? Or you mean what do I want for it?
I'm trying to find a RRA Lower complete with parts kit and carbine stock.
Oh wait, you meant which RRA upper do I have. I have the Entry Tactical 16" Upper. Includes bolt carrier group and charging handle. It's still the way Cris wrapped it. Only opened the box to confirm the exact model. It retails for 625$ but I got it for a little under 600$. Not a steal but I wasn't gouged either. (Thanks again Cris)
If you find a complete lower that I can get delivered for about 300$ let me know. Right now everyone is charging 350$ or more for them when retail is 305$. I even found one locally where I shoot and they want 450$ for it. They say it is new but I rubbed carbon off of the buffer spring which leads me to believe they're full of it or they were fooled (supposedly they took it in on consignment).
But the reason I went to Cris and actually paid tax and shipping (I flat out refuse to pay both, and most times neither) is because I couldn't find a RRA upper anywhere. I wanted RRA but I didn't want to build the upper myself because the gas system and headspacing are very important on a rifle.
I have found a couple people on other forums selling new or like new uppers for about 750$ and up just because that is what the market is paying. I also will never shop anywhere they list POR where their prices should be, even after the rush is over I will never shop with a place like that. Die gougers die!
We have been getting stuff here and there. Just remind me from time to time to check. We got an upper in I think a day or so ago, don't know what it was though. I think we still have that same upper you received Jax, plus the parts you didn't want. I think it was $585 at first correct? So if you want that Anthony I think we still have them.
anthony20031
05-22-2009, 09:28 AM
I checked but I just want to make sure but that upper half takes both the 5.56 and the .223 correct. Also I can swap out the handguard correct? Just not sure if I have to cash to throw down right now...maybe in a week or two
Yes it will shoot both 5.56 and .223. Yes you can change out the handguard to a nice quadrail.
anthony20031
06-15-2009, 09:02 PM
So guys I'm in the process of assembling my lower parts kit in the lower. When I am working on the trigger it says to insert the spring flare end first, but that crap doesn't fit. Did the guy say it incorrectly or do I need to just force it in
anthony20031
06-15-2009, 09:18 PM
nevermind just being a dumbass...please ignore lol
anthony20031
06-15-2009, 10:08 PM
Well got the lower and stock fully assembled...now just needs a nice purty upper
I don't believe it, where are the pics? We need progress pics ya know.
anthony20031
06-16-2009, 09:35 AM
yh trying to figure out how to take pics cus the wife took the camera with her to venezuela
yh trying to figure out how to take pics cus the wife took the camera with her to venezuela
buy a new one at the "CHURCH" then return it later...
anthony20031
06-16-2009, 02:56 PM
going later today to pick up a new A4 upper so now the rifle will be operational. when I go by Guntech I was also hoping that they could tighten down the nut that tightens down the stock...I didnt want to use just a plain old wrench to do it. Will see if I can take pics with my blackberry and post them on here somehow
anthony20031
06-16-2009, 08:48 PM
well I got my AR fully assembled. Still planning on changing the rails to a quad, a nice red dot and also a grip that has a bipod inside but that will now come in due time. will post pics as soon as I can...oh and great thanks to Guntech. I wont go anywhere else despite the pain because their hours lol. Rich was able to fix my one mistake where I installed the trigger guard incorrectly so that was much appreciated and except for that small mistake I wa happy with the outcome especially being new to firearms and deciding to build an AR (I am pretty surprised at how easy it truly is to build)
Changing those rails is a must Anthony and don't do drop in's, they look like shit IMO. A nice free float is a bit pricey but it does help complete the look. It was nice finally meeting ya also.
anthony20031
06-17-2009, 09:10 AM
Changing those rails is a must Anthony and don't do drop in's, they look like shit IMO. A nice free float is a bit pricey but it does help complete the look. It was nice finally meeting ya also.
Yh it was definitely good to finally meet you. I have been thinking about a Troy or Surefire quadrail. Which would you suggest (or another brand?)
Unless Surefire came out with a freefloat, their rail system is a drop-in. It's not so much the aesthetics, but functionally, the drop ins do not line the rail height with rail on the upper, making the top rail on the drop ins, generally useless. Troys are good. They are up there in price as are the Daniel Defense rails which IMHO, are the two best rail makers out there. My next rail purchase will be a Daniel Defense Omega 7.0 light rail.
I like the Troy rails, which is why I put one on my AR. Daniel Defense is nice to, but every time I look at the name I just cringe thinking of the price. Free float is the way to go. Drop ins are useless unless you are just looking to get the goodies on the gun and if you really like the ugly look of the delta ring. It is however a cheaper route to go at first if you are going to upgrade down the road and just want to be able to get the accessories on your rifle first.
anthony20031
06-17-2009, 09:46 AM
Thanks guys I had thought Surefire's rails were free float but I guess I was incorrect. I should have looked closer. And I hate the look of the delta ring, it's just so large and gaudy and it screws with the flow of the rifle I think. My buddy has a Troy on his and I really liked it so I will probably go with that.
I don't think there is any sense in throwing on a drop-in just to go to a free float a little later. Might as well just spend the money and get the free float right away rather than buying the drop in and then spending more money to buy another rail that I like better.
I have to throw it out there Anthony as some people only see the bottom dollar.
JaxChris
06-18-2009, 01:02 AM
Rails are the only way to go now. If you want to still have a nice bottom grab to the forearm just get a good set of rail covers. I agree completely with Cris on not looking for the cheapest route when it comes to rails (especially free float) as it will be a key structure in the weapon that will take a beating one way or another.
I'm personally looking at the POF P-12X rail. It has a grab upper channel and the design slides over the upper receivers rail for extra rigidity and helps accessories maintain zero.
Check them out, you might like them. Plus they like to park cars on them in their demo and they don't squish. =)
Plus they like to park cars on them in their demo and they don't squish. =)
might come in handy when changing the oil in your car.
JaxChris
06-18-2009, 07:58 AM
Exactly! They're very useful. =)
anthony20031
06-18-2009, 10:08 AM
lol that's funny. I will look them up
anthony20031
06-18-2009, 10:22 AM
Just a quick pic of the AR. I will put updated pictures (and better quality) once it is complete with rails, sights and lights!
Sure does look good. I have AR envy now. I need to build one. The only thing stopping me is $$$$ right now.
anthony20031
06-18-2009, 11:27 AM
thanks guys. It is a lot of fun. Really tearing myself apart right now trying to pick a rail. I have a 16" barrel and so I was leaning towards keeping my iron sights but that would force me to go with a pretty short rail system. Think now I am leaning towards the Troy 9" MRF Battlerail (although I could go with the 7" and keep the iron sights). I looked up the POF rails and the P-9's are nice but what is the major difference between the extended version vs the the midlength. The only difference I can make out in the pictures is that the top rail extends over the top of the upper rail and in the extended version it seems like it is longer. It looks as if it has like a tab at the end of it for reasons I have no clue...FYI remember I am relatively new to ARs despite firing my buddies a few times
JaxChris
06-18-2009, 07:09 PM
The POF rails in 9" are all mid-length. There is 3 styles of it though, all with the same length on the forearm. The P-9 is a standard unit. The P-9X has an extension on the part that covers the upper receiver's rail.
Why the two choices? Because the regular allows you to run a fixed iron sight that still matches the height of your front sight base, while the rest of the rail/handguard acts as a riser for optics without those iron sights being in the way. The X-tended version is for people with low profile gas blocks and no front sight base.
The extension goes all the way back and covers the top of the charging handle area. This allows the operator to have the longest possible sight picture at a height that is more comfortable - higher the top rail the less neck strain leaning into the sights.
The SX version just lightens the load and removes some side rails where there commonly isn't much use. They put in a finger groove for ease of grip.
So the decision comes down to whether you're going to get rid of your FSB when you goto free float or not. If you're going to keep the FSB, get the P-9. If you're ditching it and have a mid-length gas system, then get the P-11X or P-12X. This way the rail covers and protects the gas block and you maintain the longest possible sight picture.
anthony20031
06-18-2009, 09:12 PM
thanks jax...one small thing to is i also liked the actualy rails on the troy better but i like how the POF have that top rail that goes oer the upper creating one continous rail like you stated and for that reason I think I will go with the POF. Now just need to decide if i want to keep the FSB or not...we'll see I have time before I want to drop the cash on it
JaxChris
06-19-2009, 04:19 AM
I'm planning to go low-profile gas block and getting the P-12X. Cris has pumped me on the new MagPul BUIS a couple times and now I'm stuck between them and the YHM HK-style BUIS. YHM a few great styles but they can be pricier than the MagPul unless you shop around.
I like the idea of a lot of rail real estate, but some don't like the long rail look.
Take a look at the DPMS Mini-SASS and you'll get the idea of what I'm thinking. But I'm trying to find a place with a good 14.5" barrel that will pin/weld a YHM Phantom 3102A hider on it for me.
Those new Magpul's are very low profile, we got some in and they went right out.
anthony20031
07-13-2009, 09:50 AM
Alright just added some new stuff to my first build with a huge thanks to Cris. Got an amazing deal on a set of YH BUIS with the front doubling as a gas block. Also got a 7" Troy free float. Now all I need for this build is a red dot sight, some rail covers, want a grip bipod (any comments regarding this?), flashlight (and perhaps a laser, but we'll see) and I think I may change out the stock for a Magpul. Then it is time to start on a second build that will be more of a long range shooter but still haven't decided whether to do that based on the AR platform or go with a bolt action.
I will post pics tonight of the AR upgrade. Now it's just time to go shoot it!!!
Your welcome, its helps that I knew you were doing a build. You can also thank Joe, he is on here also. Username: "cyberjoe" he is the one who upgraded his parts so you could get this great deal.
anthony20031
07-13-2009, 11:28 AM
Thanks Joe! I'll be sure to put them to good use. Now I need to stock up on some ammo. Problem is looks like I'll be getting a home I put an offer on and it will need some work. So will need to convince the wife to let me spend at least some money on ammo and not renovations lol
JaxChris
07-15-2009, 10:11 AM
For the grip-pod, check the classified ads on here. Someone has them for sale at a decent price. Too bad we can't get the really nice Command Arms one from Israel. It's built like a rock and when in bi-pod mode you can swing your POA while the pod stays planted.
If you want a red-dot, I would suggest getting a few different knock offs. Try each for a while and see which worked best for you. Once you know your favorite, buy the real deal of that style. You can get knock off Aimpoint's, EOTech's, ACOG's, etc for less than 100$ each.
If you want decent quality semi-knock off scopes, then go with Barska. They have tons of styles to choose from.
anthony20031
07-15-2009, 12:25 PM
So I'm looking at the following sights and can't seem to make up my mind.
http://www.shopbarska.com/AR_15_Scopes_Mounts-4X28_IR_Electro_Sight_Multi_Rail_Red_Laser_Combo.h tml
I like how this first one has the laser attached to it, but then again you can always attach it elsewhere on the rail. Although I plan to have a light and the Grip Bipod and not sure if I would want a laser in addition on the rail as it will end up having a lot of switches etc. And it also has 4x. However on the other hand it does not have the eye relief of the second choice and do I really need the 4x as I was kinda planning this rifle to be more of a CQB rifle.
http://www.opticsplanet.net/barska-electro-sight-red-dot-sight-ac10632.html
This second one has more eye relief and seems to help more with quick target acquisition. But would have to put any laser directly on the rail if I chose to add one and there is no magnification.
Hmmm can't seem to make up my mind right now. Any input guys?
anthony20031
07-15-2009, 01:10 PM
Well I'm an inpatient bastard...so I went with the first one. I weighed the pros and cons for what I want and decided to go with the 4x sight. Oh and of course there were a couple bad reviews with the 2nd one which helped push me a little more to the 1st option...most sights still gave the 2nd one close to a 4 star out of 5 though... I just figured it would be nice to have some magnification and if using for truly CQB could always turn on the red dot. Will give a review once I receive!!!
Let us know. Admittedly, I'm an optics snob. But honestly, there's been so many inquiries about more affordable options in the shop that Rich placed an order of NCStar products. Right now the only inexpensive options are the Sig optics. While I like the Micro knockoff, I'm not crazy about the halo knock off that is similar in design to this one.
anthony20031
07-15-2009, 09:21 PM
yh I would love to go EoTech or something but don't have the cash right now. Hopefully I will be surprised. We'll see.
Just a quick pic of the AR. I will put updated pictures (and better quality) once it is complete with rails, sights and lights!
You now have a new rail and sights, time for a new pic.
anthony20031
07-16-2009, 08:58 AM
You now have a new rail and sights, time for a new pic.
yh sorry just been a little hectic. I will post pics tonight with the rail and BUIS but I won't have the Barska until probably Tuesday or so.
JaxChris
07-16-2009, 09:18 AM
Anthony, you made a good choice. I've been considering that one or the Barska mini-ACOG style myself. Although I agree with Phil that the Sig Micro T1 rip is a very appealing option. I think Micro T1's used as the rear sight with a front sight (like Sig offers it on the 556) is a best of both worlds configuration - but having a small scope that far back (close to your head) doesn't offer as much eye relief and would slow down target acquisition from what I can tell.
anthony20031
07-16-2009, 09:31 AM
yh Jax I did look at the mini ACOG
yh sorry just been a little hectic. I will post pics tonight with the rail and BUIS but I won't have the Barska until probably Tuesday or so.
Just another excuse to post another pic, we like progression pics, plus you will always have the pics to show your progress.
anthony20031
07-20-2009, 10:03 AM
Here are some updated pics. Still waiting for the optics to come in and then plan on picking up the Grip Bipod
Here are some updated pics. Still waiting for the optics to come in and then plan on picking up the Grip Bipod
Whoever put on that rail and sights did a great job. Nice updated pics.
anthony20031
07-20-2009, 10:31 AM
Whoever put on that rail and sights did a great job. Nice updated pics.
Yes they did an awesome job...gonna head out after work today and put the first few rounds through her
Nice. Where ya going to shoot?
anthony20031
07-20-2009, 10:37 AM
probably just to bass pro because it's the most convenient as they are open later and I work so far south and it's on my way home. Really want to take it out to Markham once I get the optics as I want it zeroed at 100 yards. Will probably go there this weekend. Just hope it isn't too crowded
Check out Pembroke Gun range, I think they are closer, plus they have many lanes.
anthony20031
07-20-2009, 10:49 AM
Pembroke is off Sheridan or Stirling and west right? Thought that was private. Maybe I am thinking of the wrong one though
anthony20031
07-20-2009, 10:50 AM
It's outdoors right?
Thats indoor, just like Outdoor world, just quite a few more lanes.
good work ... nice black rifle
JaxChris
07-20-2009, 11:16 AM
Thats indoor, just like Outdoor...
That's a confusing way to start a sentence.
Btw, what rail is that? It looks like a Colt but mid-length instead of carbine?!?
anthony20031
07-20-2009, 12:41 PM
Troy MRF 7" free float.
Yup with Yankee Hill Flip up BUIS with the front doubling as a gas block
anthony20031
07-21-2009, 09:37 AM
So went and shot it for the first time last night at Bass Pro. Worked perfectly. The farthest you can shoot there is 75 feet and the iron sights were right on target. Thanks again Cris! Will get my optics in tomorrow and am going to try and get to Markham this weekend.
Your welcome. The bore sighter will get you on target most of time, with a little adjustment usually when physically dotting some paper. I'm sure once you get the optic you will have to fine tune her a bit.
anthony20031
07-22-2009, 02:58 PM
Just got the optic with the laser from Barska. I am pleased for now. I was nervous that it was going to be very flimsily (is that a word lol) made, but it seems very well built and tough. I'm at the office now so won't be able to really look it over until later and I will give my opinion then
JaxChris
07-22-2009, 06:44 PM
Before Cris says... pictures!
anthony20031
07-22-2009, 11:09 PM
Well this pic was taken with a cell phone so not great quality. Also having trouble getting onto Photobucket to resize so hopefully it comes out alright.
Well to be honest I love the sight so far, but there is on small problem. Becuase of the rear BUIS I had to move the scope forward, but as a result I can't get a view through the scope unless I move my head a lot more forward (or just not fully expand the stock). So I think I will need to get a riser (?) to get the scope just above the BUIS. Also in the pic you can see the laser attached to the side.
Let me know what you think!
With a riser will you still be able to use the iron sights should be the question.
Now that the pic is resized it looks like you would be able to get away with it.
anthony20031
07-23-2009, 08:59 AM
you think so? Where the scope is now I don't think I can keep there. I like the stock to be fully extended and can't do that and get a clear view through the scope. If I were to raise it high enough though to clear the rear BUIS when it is flipped up it would have to be raised quite high. I don't know much about sights and how to arrange them on the rifle etc so any and all advise is heavily welcomed. Any ideas on which riser etc?
anthony20031
07-23-2009, 08:59 AM
thanks for the resize cris. My computer at home is having some issues. I need to get it repaired
What about doing a quick release base?
anthony20031
07-23-2009, 09:01 AM
that would work...but would it raise it high enough to be able to move it back and sit over the BUIS?
Anything is possible Anthony. I know Phil on one of his guns. I know I have seen some where it can actually fold over to the side also.
anthony20031
07-23-2009, 10:04 AM
The fold over one intrigues me and I think I would rather have that than the quick detach
is there a riser that wouls also have a flip to the side capability like my eotech?
disclaimer:
I am no expert, but it does seem that the scope is too far forward for proper eye relief, and that you could not engage the rear buis without it interfering with the scope..
anthony20031
07-23-2009, 10:49 AM
is there a riser that wouls also have a flip to the side capability like my eotech?
disclaimer:
I am no expert, but it does seem that the scope is too far forward for proper eye relief, and that you could not engage the rear buis without it interfering with the scope..
yh and is not like I will be using the scope with the BUIS....so if I can get it above the rear BUIS when it is folded down and a flip to the side mount can get it over it then I should be good...when I want to use the BUIS then just flip the scope to the side...Worst case scenario I go with a quick detach instead
Worst case scenario I go with a quick detach instead
would the zero change from removing and replacing the scope?
I had the zero set, then I removed the HWS, put it back on where it was before and my zero was off. I know that from moving my scope around to fit my 3x I still do not have my gun zero'd in.
anthony20031
07-23-2009, 11:39 AM
would the zero change from removing and replacing the scope?
I had the zero set, then I removed the HWS, put it back on where it was before and my zero was off. I know that from moving my scope around to fit my 3x I still do not have my gun zero'd in.
That's a good point but how often am I really going to remove the scope? I don't really plan on using the BUIS all that much. They are, liked they are called, BACK UP iron sights. Only really plan on taking off the scope in the case it breaks and I'm in some gun fight. Don't plan on being in one but I liked to be prepared so if I am in one and the scope breaks the quick detach or flip to the side gives me the ability to change to the BUIS quickly.
anthony20031
07-23-2009, 11:41 AM
Oh and I also have the laser which if necessary should at least be able to get me on target quick in CQB... On another note I was expecting to be able to trace the laser back to the gun but was unable to. There was no red stream of light visible to trace back. My buddy claims it is because my house is clean and is not dusty lol
Usually you have to rezero when its removed.
I have the GG&G quick detach mount. They claim to have a 1/2 MOA return to zero. LaRue makes a really nice one as well.
ETA, the rings are for 30mm. Not sure what your optic is but they may also make one for a 1" tube.
http://tacticaladv.com/picture.php?albumid=6&pictureid=50
anthony20031
07-23-2009, 12:26 PM
I don't want the quick detach with the rings though. How much do they run for?
Not 100% sure but it was somewhere around $200.
I don't really plan on using the BUIS all that much.
I like to practice with them so I have an idea where I have to line them up to hit the target..
also to get them cowitnessed with the red dot
anthony20031
07-23-2009, 12:57 PM
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=51373/sku/Riser_Mount
Maybe something like the above. Didn't realize they cost so much. The one above should give me ample clearance and is a quick detach. I think it should hold zero relatively accurately. It may not be exact but we'll see.
JaxChris
07-23-2009, 10:21 PM
I think LaRue and GG&G both have non-specific FTS mounts that raise your scope 1/2 inch also.
YHM has 1/2" rail risers that you can use in conjuction with a generic low-profile FTS mount that would probably increase height about 3/4" and provide lower 1/3 co-witnessing of the BUIS.
Most will do a FTS on the 3x and a QD on the Red Dot. They even provide hollow 1" risers that allow you to use/see your iron sights through the riser.
If you're interested in either of these styles let me know and I'll find some links/prices for you.
anthony20031
07-24-2009, 09:45 AM
sounds good to me
anthony20031
07-24-2009, 09:53 AM
Well last night I removed the rear BUIS and moved the scope backwards so that the rear of the scope sat directly over the charging handle. Even if I did not have to clear the rear BUIS the scope is a tad too low to give me a good line of sight down the scope
The shop sells a flat top riser that is made by Promag. I don't recall the price, but it is probably less than $45. It will bring the scope to the proper height on the AR and give you some room for the BUIS.
JaxChris
07-31-2009, 09:43 AM
Is this the one? It looks pretty nice.
http://dynamicarmament.com/items/ar15-accessories/promag/promag-ar-15-flat-top-scope-riser-3-4-aluminium-pm066-detail.htm
anthony20031
07-31-2009, 10:03 AM
that would probably work